Discuss Quality work by a 4WW..... in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

-Matt

Regular EF Member
Messages
87
Location
England
I thought you guys may be interested in these pics from a "spark" who did one of these 4 week courses and went straight to self employed!

This was for a house Re-wire, I actually quoted for this job originally but the house owner chose this contractor instead, but then contacted me afterwards to take a look as they were concerned by the work completed. :rolleyes:

When I walked in and saw the work, I was truly shocked, it was truly dangerous!
I contacted the Niceic for the homeowner who have now completely Re-wired the house with another contractor under the platinum guarantee.
Original "Spark" is no longer registered, so its good to see the Niceic do take action!

This was apparently a finished job which she has been paid in full for :eek:

Anyway have fun with these :D:

C/U was moved, so quite rightly a switch fuse was installed, not so sure on the insulation methods mind:
IMG_5047.JPG

Urm...., oh and thats data going behind the C/U there...
IMG_1572.JPG

Wet pants is always wrapping his pipes around my cables, I know I will wrap my spaghetti around his pipes..
IMG_0584.JPG

Meter tails and more chased horizontally through wall, not in a safe zone..
IMG_0813.JPG

Now what is that bare wire for, lets poke it back out of the box...
IMG_0360.JPG

Expanding foam doesn't seem to be working at fixing the boxes..., oh and that damn bare wire again! and no grommet! o_O
IMG_2704.JPG

Well the expanding foam wasn't working, lets just leave them hanging...
IMG_0016.JPG



IMG_6324.JPG

Its all too much work chopping the boxes into the wall..
IMG_9909.JPG

Wago boxes are over-rated...
IMG_2299.JPG

This surely has to be up there with the worst?
 

Pete999

Forum Mentor
Messages
21,803
Location
Northampton
I thought you guys may be interested in these pics from a "spark" who did one of these 4 week courses and went straight to self employed!

This was for a house Re-wire, I actually quoted for this job originally but the house owner chose this contractor instead, but then contacted me afterwards to take a look as they were concerned by the work completed. :rolleyes:

When I walked in and saw the work, I was truly shocked, it was truly dangerous!
I contacted the Niceic for the homeowner who have now completely Re-wired the house with another contractor under the platinum guarantee.
Original "Spark" is no longer registered, so its good to see the Niceic do take action!

This was apparently a finished job which she has been paid in full for :eek:

Anyway have fun with these :D:

C/U was moved, so quite rightly a switch fuse was installed, not so sure on the insulation methods mind:
View attachment 45259

Urm...., oh and thats data going behind the C/U there...
View attachment 45256

Wet pants is always wrapping his pipes around my cables, I know I will wrap my spaghetti around his pipes..
View attachment 45254

Meter tails and more chased horizontally through wall, not in a safe zone..
View attachment 45255

Now what is that bare wire for, lets poke it back out of the box...
View attachment 45253

Expanding foam doesn't seem to be working at fixing the boxes..., oh and that damn bare wire again! and no grommet! o_O
View attachment 45258

Well the expanding foam wasn't working, lets just leave them hanging...
View attachment 45252



View attachment 45261

Its all too much work chopping the boxes into the wall..
View attachment 45262

Wago boxes are over-rated...
View attachment 45257

This surely has to be up there with the worst?
I have no words, well I do really but I enjoy this forum any comment would get me an immediate ban I shouldn't wonder, awful just awful.
 

darkwood

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Messages
12,443
Location
West Yorkshire
They are having to take action now because it costs them money not to do so with the platinum guarantee, which tbh is the first I have heard about it.
 

JK-Electrical

Politically Incorrect
Electrician's Arms
Messages
830
Location
Glasgow
I thought you guys may be interested in these pics from a "spark" who did one of these 4 week courses and went straight to self employed!

This was for a house Re-wire, I actually quoted for this job originally but the house owner chose this contractor instead, but then contacted me afterwards to take a look as they were concerned by the work completed. :rolleyes:

When I walked in and saw the work, I was truly shocked, it was truly dangerous!
I contacted the Niceic for the homeowner who have now completely Re-wired the house with another contractor under the platinum guarantee.
Original "Spark" is no longer registered, so its good to see the Niceic do take action!

This was apparently a finished job which she has been paid in full for :eek:

Anyway have fun with these :D:

C/U was moved, so quite rightly a switch fuse was installed, not so sure on the insulation methods mind:
View attachment 45259

Urm...., oh and thats data going behind the C/U there...
View attachment 45256

Wet pants is always wrapping his pipes around my cables, I know I will wrap my spaghetti around his pipes..
View attachment 45254

Meter tails and more chased horizontally through wall, not in a safe zone..
View attachment 45255

Now what is that bare wire for, lets poke it back out of the box...
View attachment 45253

Expanding foam doesn't seem to be working at fixing the boxes..., oh and that damn bare wire again! and no grommet! o_O
View attachment 45258

Well the expanding foam wasn't working, lets just leave them hanging...
View attachment 45252



View attachment 45261

Its all too much work chopping the boxes into the wall..
View attachment 45262

Wago boxes are over-rated...
View attachment 45257

This surely has to be up there with the worst?
That is truly shocking and is as bad as any other rogue install that I've seen. If ever there was a vivid example of why these short courses should be outlawed, then this it. There is no quick route to becoming a qualified electrician.

NICEIC ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. IMHO they are equally culpable for facilitating cowboy operators easy access to our industry. Disgraceful.
 

Pete999

Forum Mentor
Messages
21,803
Location
Northampton
They are having to take action now because it costs them money not to do so with the platinum guarantee, which tbh is the first I have heard about it.
It could be DW that the NICEIC are finally realising what is actually happening out in the real world, so far removed from what they think is happening, I for one hope that many more of these supposed Electricians get outed and struck off the CS Schemes register, someone has to be first, wonder who it will be?
 
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Gavin John Hyde

Electrician's Arms
Messages
2,634
Location
Somerset
WOW!
No wonder they kicked him out the scheme, that is atrocious! quite how anybody can justify such damn poor work is beyond me!
Its as if no effort was put in at all and simply didn't care, pure and simple cowboy fleecing people.
Worrying thing is, he may have been ejected from Certsure but has he ended up at stroma or napit? might even still be doing rewires and works issuing generic certs and not notifying them.
Personally i would encourage the customer to get building control involved and trading standards, given the NICEIC have had to fork out under the warranty to put right they would happily support taking action against this rogue.
A rewire if planned well and time taken is not a hugely difficult task, its time consuming and messy and i think that is where people come unstuck, they under estimate the work involved and just want easy money. if that's the case stick to the quick simple jobs changing fittings and sockets at £50 a pop.
I tend to stay away from rewires, simply because physically my body doesn't appreciate too much physical effort these days, have too many old injuries and issues. I also feel the perfectionist in me means I tend to go a bit slower than I used to. so wont rush it and nor will I enter the price war in the race to the bottom. Also in time it takes to do one, I can earn more for much less effort!
 

Midwest

Electrician's Arms
Messages
11,175
Location
Oxfordshire
The bad install can be replaced, I would be a little bit more concerned about the damage caused to the structure of the property, in those switch drops etc?
 

rompling

Regular EF Member
Messages
81
Proper bad install, your right one of the worst
But funny how the customer always comes back to the more expensive electrician to rectify - have had it myself - maybe there is a reason it costs more and the customer need to start getting this
This one and the one in Glasgow this week that I saw posted - makes me concerned for the future
 

gazdkw82

Trainee
Trainee Access
Messages
1,502
Location
leicester
These courses are putting people's lives at risk. You CANNOT! Be an independent, competent electrician in just a few weeks! No matter how good the training or how clever you are!

I wouldn't let buzz aldren wire my house after a 5week course. No matter how good his results and how many John ward videos he watched.
 

happyhippydad

Member
Electrician's Arms
Messages
3,108
Location
Gloucestershire
How do you know it was someone who had done one of the Domestic Installer courses Matt?

This next bit isn't aimed at all towards you Matt, just in general....

I realise the above install is appalling but it would be nice if there was a bit of a balance between showing good work and bad work. I wonder why people like having a go at others so much, it's like the Jeremy Kyle of electrics sometimes!
 

Massive1

Trainee Access
Messages
476
Location
East Anglia
Not disputing the workmanship at all as its atrocious but was it defiantly a 4ww who done this work, I know they can become easy targets.

I just cant imagine someone turning up to a re-wire a house and admitting they have 4 weeks of training and 3 of them was in the classroom.
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
ALL the schemes need to introduce un announced site visits, on work in progress and completed notified works .....

Unless this happens, nothing will change
 
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'mr2'gd4u

Regular EF Member
Messages
180
Location
Farnham
Agree Murdoch, with a guarenteed random 5 visits over 12 months. Only need to be 20 minutes in most cases. The inspector could knock out 10 a day.
This would be awkward though wouldn't it? "so I'm off to inspect xxxx xxxxx today but have no idea where he is working" calls scheme member
"where you working today"
"sorry mate I'm on holiday, back in 2 weeks"
 

ChrisElectrical88

Forum Mentor
Messages
1,568
Location
Norwich
This would be awkward though wouldn't it? "so I'm off to inspect xxxx xxxxx today but have no idea where he is working" calls scheme member
"where you working today"
"sorry mate I'm on holiday, back in 2 weeks"
I was thinking more along the lines of conpleted jobs. Everyone submits certificates, could just get jobs and addresses fron them.
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
This would be awkward though wouldn't it? "so I'm off to inspect xxxx xxxxx today but have no idea where he is working" calls scheme member
"where you working today"
"sorry mate I'm on holiday, back in 2 weeks"
That’s not an issue in most areas .... the assessor would then move on to the next on the list .....

AND if the assessors had a list of scheme members from all the schemes that would make them even more efficient

I’m with Stroma and they will only assess completed work, Elecsa would allow work in progress as long as there was something complete to test.
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
And how would the inspector know where the contractor is?
I can go to 5 jobs a day and some emergency calls outs so I cannot see how the inspector could catch up with you.
But there are many people who may be at the same address for a week ....
 

Baddegg

Still simmering Ken, not boiled yet buddy x
Electrician's Arms
Messages
1,282
Location
Portsmouth
Try and put a date on second fix when there are other trades involved......I do agree though,even as 6ww (yep 6) that things need sorting because the install this post is about is getting far more common, ironically I’m a 6ww (yep 6) because the short course “electricians” I was getting on my jobs were absolute pony and when the chippie knows more about installing what cables and where than the “spark” the industry is in trouble!
 

GMES

Hairy and proud
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Under the banana tree.
And who's going to pay for the assessor to make 5 visits a year to every contractor, not me as I pay enough every year.
 

Baddegg

Still simmering Ken, not boiled yet buddy x
Electrician's Arms
Messages
1,282
Location
Portsmouth
Personally I would hold the training centres AND schemes to account, they are the people’s responsible for passing these people,having been through the system personally as it were, they are unable to teach the stuff outside of electrical theory that,especially in domestic work, is essential, Point proven by this donut holding back boxes in with foam wtf!
These people leave the centres with they confidence boosted having passed the exams and go straight out and quote ridiculous money for full rewires etc as they have no idea as to how a building actually works,not just from an electrical standpoint but in any way.
I’m not saying shut the centres as there are plenty of people that go through them for the right reasons, been in the trade years but no quals, leaving the military and need relevant quals or on some occasions people actually want to change careers and do make it work with hard work and the right attitude.
Just make them accountable when things like this happen........rant over where’s my beer!
 

Fitzy

Newly Qualified Sparky
Electrician's Arms
Messages
202
Location
Redhill
You can’t ALWAYS blame these type of poor installs on the short course electricians, but as a usual you do as it’s so easy todo so. Fully trained, time served electricians have also done some of these atrocious installs as well over the years, as can be seen on YouTube and other forums and even this forum too. As of yet there’s NO proof this install was done by a short course electrician or a time served one either.

I’m proud to say that I took the Tradeskills4U route and completed their Bronze Electricians course which is actually 3 & half weeks in total (18 days), does this make me an electrician, NO, but on paper and based on the C&G’s exams I took (which nearly EVERY electrician has passed), I’m qualified and classed as a competent person to carry out domestic electrical work, but I am on a very, very long journey of gaining experience, which is never ever ending, even for the ‘time served’ electricians out there.
 

Deuce

Regular EF Member
Messages
464
Location
Stamford
I'm not a qualified spark, never will be. But I can say hand on heart I have never and would never do anything like this. It's not just length of training and years of experience, it's basic personal/professional standards that should keep work neat and correct.

I'll accept that some problems require a great deal of thought and experience. But.. "Should I wrap this cable around a hot water supply pipe" as just one example, is not one of them.

On another note, there is one key thing that comes from on site training and experience, and that's basic handyman skills. This guy doesn't have them.
 

FatAlan

Trainee
Trainee Access
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1,464
Location
Surrey
I’d agree that courses are woefully inadequate, even at some of the colleges. Lots of reasons. One of my major bugbears is that exams in general in all subjects rely too much on computer multiple choice exams which are forumulaic and if you are good at working through books and mock tests are quite easy to pass.
Where do they teach how to approach a 50 year old installation with antiquated equipment, techniques for planning and rewiring a premises that may have been designed an built before electricity was invented.
Some of us take pride in our work and know their limitations. Unfortunately there are quite a few out there who don’t on both counts !
 

Fitzy

Newly Qualified Sparky
Electrician's Arms
Messages
202
Location
Redhill
Clearly that contractor skipped the week where they mentioned professionalism. A course can teach you all you like but you have to care about what you're leaving behind.
I whole heartedly agree John, but professionalism cannot be taught, you’ve either got it or you haven’t.

It’s the same with attitude and common sense. My own perfectionalism (probably OCD) would never allow me to even think about doing it that way. The half a dozen jobs or so I’ve done so far have all taken longer than I quoted for as I take pride in my work, even to the point that the spirit levels bubble HAS to be exactly between the 2 lines evenly, even when clipping cables behind cabinets and plasterboard, it has to be perfectly straight and level, with perfect curves as well, even though it’s never gonna be seen. Over time I know I’ll get quicker and get the job completed within the quoted time. But I’ll only leave the site once the work is completed to a standard I would expect in my own home.
 

johnduffell

Regular EF Member
Messages
695
Location
uk
the spirit levels bubble HAS to be exactly between the 2 lines evenly, even when clipping cables behind cabinets and plasterboard
haha, I know what you mean, but you can get over that one by getting yourself a laser cross level, it can help no end on long runs!
 

Deuce

Regular EF Member
Messages
464
Location
Stamford
haha, I know what you mean, but you can get over that one by getting yourself a laser cross level, it can help no end on long runs!
£50 odd and all of a sudden everything you do just looks spot on :)

Also c'mon, what sort of customer isn't slightly impressed if you rock up with a laser :)
 

Marvo

Admin and gender confused
Staff member
Admin
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15,419
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South Africa
Someone who leaves any job looking like that obviously couldn't give a flying ****. Those pictures are a result of character defecits or just plain bone-idle laziness. Anyone who's so devoid of personal traits like job pride and customer empathy is going to do a shoddy job like that regardless of what qualifications or electrical knowledge they have.
 

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