Discuss Quality work by a electrical trainee..... in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
An electrician is someone who conducts electrical work for remuneration.No-ones an Electrician unless they can do Domestic, Commercial, Industrial. No such thing as an Domestic Installer, its come about to generate money for schemes, nothing more nothing less.
@Deuce , @gazdkw82 and @Pete999 ...
Based on the fact you're all saying short coursers lacking sufficient practical experience and knowledge, is it entirely inconceivable for you that some may have sufficient practical experience and knowledge before they go that route?
This is often something that's stated... insufficient practical skills and experience... so what practical skills and experience do you believe are required?
In response to SparkyChick’s post:
Not sure about fixing accessories to the inside of cupboards.
Don’t like the two lengths of trunking feeding the accessories under the cupboards.
Don’t like cables fixed in place under floor boards.
Do like the metal plates protecting cables through joists.
I was saying you won't get those skills from a 4 week course.
Back in the days before MF JBs, JBs were fixed to platforms constructed under the floor with all cables clipped prior to making any connections, not only was this good practice, it made connecting a lot easier, and with large lighting JBs a work of professionalism, not like they teach today make the connections and chuck it (the JB ) under the floor. I some times wonder as long as the JB position is noted on the EIC why we can't still use them, I suppose it is the lack of training given out in these "be a Spark in 5 weeks courses" no skills taught just how to get the exam passed.Thanks @spinlondon
Just some questions if I may
The accessories in cupboards... what do you see as the issue with that?
Two lengths of trunking... I agree, not ashamed to say I made a mistake, should have used bigger trunking to begin with. Just couldn't get all the cables in one length. Genuine mistake.
Cable fixed in place under the floor boards... I'm guessing is the cabling around the Surewire lighting junction box? Generally agree, the only cables that were fixed were those going to the boxes themselves. They have cable clamps anyway and movement was limited. The rest were just pulled in.
@Deuce , @gazdkw82 and @Pete999 ...
Based on the fact you're all saying short coursers lacking sufficient practical experience and knowledge, is it entirely inconceivable for you that some may have sufficient practical experience and knowledge before they go that route?
This is often something that's stated... insufficient practical skills and experience... so what practical skills and experience do you believe are required?
I don't see why the round 30A JB exists any more. Old practice had often seen the cpc twisted together and left outside the JB, this practice has carried on and those that use them still do this today.Back in the days before MF JBs, JBs were fixed to platforms constructed under the floor with all cables clipped prior to making any connections, not only was this good practice, it made connecting a lot easier, and with large lighting JBs a work of professionalism, not like they teach today make the connections and chuck it (the JB ) under the floor. I some times wonder as long as the JB position is noted on the EIC why we can't still use them, I suppose it is the lack of training given out in these "be a Spark in 5 weeks courses" no skills taught just how to get the exam passed.
That's a good point. In this instance as long as the individual has at least a few years in the trade then I'd consider that acceptable experience.
The overall problem for me is the people who run these courses generaly help you through. Some of the ones in my class we're clueless without being promoted in the right direction (even at the simplest task) not all are like this but some are and that's the danger.
I think after you pass you should still need 2 years experience before you are classed as competent. that doesn't apply if you have prior experience.
Electrical work is very diverse. Personally I only believe you can be classed competent once you have had exposure to numerous situations that you can only get working out within the trade.
We did.---Classroom we had already run the 2.5/1.5 PVC/LSF around the perimeter of the room asked to add two extra sockets cut 2.5 near where one socket would be put the other leg to first socket new cable between that and another new socket then back to 30A JB above-suspended ceiling screwed to a wooden panel. We were unable to pull the new cable back to the previous socket in the room so JB that we had in the van helped us out.and a quicker install, why would anyone think installing a round 30A JB is a good idea?
And I absolutely would not argue with any that holds that view, because it's fundamentally correct. There is not enough practical time on the short courses.
There's enough to get the basics of wiring down, but once you start to throw into the equation construction methods etc., forget it.
Sorry chap, but you've started a controversial thread which is fair enough but then given no further input. The above accusation about the Domestic installer courses are worthless without backup facts which you have failed to give.I thought you guys may be interested in these pics from a "spark" who did one of these 4 week courses and went straight to self employed!
This was for a house Re-wire, I actually quoted for this job originally but the house owner chose this contractor instead, but then contacted me afterwards to take a look as they were concerned by the work completed.
When I walked in and saw the work, I was truly shocked, it was truly dangerous!
I contacted the Niceic for the homeowner who have now completely Re-wired the house with another contractor under the platinum guarantee.
Original "Spark" is no longer registered, so its good to see the Niceic do take action!
This was apparently a finished job which she has been paid in full for
Anyway have fun with these :
C/U was moved, so quite rightly a switch fuse was installed, not so sure on the insulation methods mind:
View attachment 45259
Urm...., oh and thats data going behind the C/U there...
View attachment 45256
Wet pants is always wrapping his pipes around my cables, I know I will wrap my spaghetti around his pipes..
View attachment 45254
Meter tails and more chased horizontally through wall, not in a safe zone..
View attachment 45255
Now what is that bare wire for, lets poke it back out of the box...
View attachment 45253
Expanding foam doesn't seem to be working at fixing the boxes..., oh and that damn bare wire again! and no grommet!
View attachment 45258
Well the expanding foam wasn't working, lets just leave them hanging...
View attachment 45252
View attachment 45261
Its all too much work chopping the boxes into the wall..
View attachment 45262
Wago boxes are over-rated...
View attachment 45257
This surely has to be up there with the worst?
Response to @SparkyChick:
Some would say that accessories should be fixed only to the fabric of the building.
From your picture, it looks like the accessories are attached to the more solid side of the cupboard, not the flimsy back panel.
As such and taking into consideration that it’s a fitted kitchen (which makes the cupboards virtually part of the fabric of the building), I don’t have a problem with them.
However, others (including assessors) may have.
Surprised you couldn’t fit all the conductors in just one length of trunking?
Don’t like cables fixed under floorboards and above ceilings, as it’s a pain when it comes round to rewiring them.
SparkyChick, that is really nice quality work. You are also clearly very knowledgeable, much more than many graded sparks IMO, and it seems mad that you won't get a JIB grade with the quals you hold. It's a shame they don't still do the NVQ3 with the knowledge assesment, you would walk it.
I find the constant belittling of short course people rather tiring too as it puts a divide in the forum. I'm a fully qualified sparks and I work in a large firm so there are also many fully qualified idiots lol.
The crux of it is, you never stop learning, so whatever someone's start in the industry is, push to be the very best you can......and in all cases....... better than your colleagues.....which is not hard where I work haha.
Reply to Quality work by a electrical trainee..... in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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