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Discuss Question regarding neutral for Ring final Circuit. in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

N

nazoom

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I am carrying out the continuity for a ring final test for a single phase TN-S system. When doing the end to end Neutral I don't get a reading!! What is wrong here and what Code does apply (Code 1-3)?

Many Thanks.
 
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B

Barry Rathbone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Sure its a ring?

a) L-L ok?
b)E-E ok?
Loose or disconnected N if they are..

Get checking...
 
N

nazoom

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
There is no disconnected neutral I checked.

However a) L-L is ok,
E-E is ok
but N-N no reading!!

What's wrong here? And what code is used for the Periodic inspection reporting?
 

micknew

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Arms
Esteemed
I am carrying out the continuity for a ring final test for a single phase TN-S system. When doing the end to end Neutral I don't get a reading!! What is wrong here and what Code does apply (Code 1-3)?

Many Thanks.
Get an electrician to have a look, basic stuff he'll soon sus it.
 
J

jdd

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Code 2, but you should really know that if you are carrying out a periodic / EICR?
 

kingeri

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Arms
If you get no reading then there IS a break in the ring somewhere. It's obvious....that's what the test is checking for.....if you don't believe your test results then why bother testing? The break in continuity doesn't have to be at an accessory....could be any number of things. Bit worrying if you are doing EICRs......
 
N

nazoom

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
It is for my exam. I did it today and there is tomorrow. but I cant understand if there is no reading for N-N does that mean that the ring is discontinues and therefore code 2 is used? Or is it incorrect polarity?
 
B

Barry Rathbone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
exam eh..

info only then..:13:

Old cert's?
Any idea of number of sockets ?

Resistance readings of L and CPC rings?(or is that asking to much)
It callled experience sometimes too, check everywhere, twice....ask the owner/householder questions as to where to look for more sockets.

Then wait for the buzz when you finally find it!:54:25 years and I do "Die Hard" when I find the fault the last 4 sparks couldn't find!!
 
D

Deleted member 9648

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
It means the neutral part of the ring is not continuous......think about how a ring is constructed and why,and you will work it out for yourself.
 
B

Barry Rathbone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
I'm keeping quiet sorry, exams are for a purpose.Swot up.Took me 2 min to find in regs.
 
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nazoom

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
All i need to know is does No reading for N-N means that the ring is discontinues?
 
B

Barry Rathbone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Of course it does. Its discontinued. Has no continuity.

Gave in!
 

spark 68

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Arms
Esteemed
Reading some of the OP's threads over the last couple of days, Iam sure he said that the test rig has deliberate faults added for the candidates to code for.
 
B

Barry Rathbone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
I'm throwing away all my regs books...in fact time to make some money.Selling all regs books and onsites guides!!
This is much more fun asking questions and getting answers..Love it! :heart:
 
O

Octopus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
I think that we should adopt an "ask question back" to these type questions and until the OP answers there should be no more input in the thread!
 
P

pencilpusher

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
There are far too many kids on here with attitude. Just check some of the threads over the last week. :59:
 

Jimmy Boy

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Arms
I think that we should adopt an "ask question back" to these type questions and until the OP answers there should be no more input in the thread!
Murdoch at the risk of sounding repetitive I did suggest (Along with others) that all of these kinds of posts (And posters) should be contained in a locked off forum, where these type of questions can be analysed prior to establishing whether they are professional electricians, trainees or Diy-ers , I agree with your sentiment tho, I think more info should be gained from the OP before giving advice.

ATB J
 

Jimmy Boy

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Arms
And THAT I think what got peoples back up ! Be up front be honest !
J
 
Is the RFC's neutral discontinuous? I'd have thought that was pretty obvious, or is it just me?
Sometimes I despair but then I think maybe my kids are right, maybe I am a grumpy old bugger
 

Jimmy Boy

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Arms
Tony the prob with the OP was it was misleading ?
It came across as a Q but then as a an exam Q ?
The exam could have said test this RFC ? so do we have interconnects ? spurs ? its so vague mate.

Grumpy you ? LMFAO
J
 
This thread seems a bit angry for no particular reason..................
We should all help each other out here not get nasty, In my opinion anyway.
 

telectrix

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i t's not particularly angry. it's just annoying when a thread is posted giving the impression that the guy is stuck with a fault on a job, then it turns out he's asking for help with college work on the sly, when with a bit of effort the answer can be found by turning a few pages in his books.
 

Jimmy Boy

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Arms
This thread seems a bit angry for no particular reason..................
We should all help each other out here not get nasty, In my opinion anyway.
I don't think any of us are 'Angry' just increasingly irritated at being asked to give OUR time to answer questions where the OP can't be bothered to give us the full facts, this is extremely disrespectful to experienced helpful members that give up their own time ( When I could be on Red Tube ) to answer the OP's question, tell me what is one of the most vital qualities of a good sparky ? ..the ability to gather information, by asking the right questions, at the right time, of the right person to come to a conclusion about a fault, this guy just didn't bother, the devil is in the detail.
J
 
P

pencilpusher

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #31
As I stated in a similar thread yesterday, the missing thing with some of the members is a lack of communication skills whether it be to their peers (as here) or to their customers! Electrical knowledge and skill is important but I tell you what; so is being able to communicate with others.
 
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telectrix

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with apprentices, i always used to find the best communication tool to be a wet rag applied across the head.
 
P

pencilpusher

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #33
with apprentices, i always used to find the best communication tool to be a wet rag applied across the head.

That is a good way to communicate with them but they still have not communicated back; Unless they scream in pain of course! :2guns:
 

ipf

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
As I stated in a similar thread yesterday, the missing thing with some of the members is a lack of communication skills whether it be to their peers (as here) or to their customers! Electrical knowledge and skill is important but I tell you what; so is being able to communicate with others.
Yep, common sense wouldn't go amiss either.
 
N

nazoom

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #35
What the hell are you guys talking about. You all should help each other not matter who we are or what we are doing. I had one question and you guys didnt help instead you started talking garbage about arrogance and lack of communication.

I thank everyone who replied and tried to help.

If you don't like my question or think it is arrogant to ask then why the hell are you on this forum. Isn't this forum suppose to help each other?

Thanks.
 
P

Plonker 3

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #36
nazoom, people come on here to get help, that's fine. What isn't is the pure laziness of some students who seem to think it is OK to get answers for your homework on here. I didn't spend 3 years at college so I could do other peoples homework/coursework without any input from them.

If on the other hand they come on and give a problem letting us know it is for homework, and give some of their own suggestions to the answer they will get a lot more help and assistance.

I haven't seen your post you are referring too, and I am sure if it was a genuine problem you couldn't solve the posters on there would feel quite bad about what they said.
 
O

Octopus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #37
If you don't like my question or think it is arrogant to ask then why the hell are you on this forum. Isn't this forum suppose to help each other?

Thanks.

So you think you can ask what appears to be a fault finding question, offer no thoughts yourself and then include whats in red above.

Maybe you need to think about how you communicate and how best to get the best out of this forum. Such "attitide" as you've expressed here WILL get peoples backs up and quite rightly so IMHO.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt for now so lets see a more contructive question, with your thoughts on the answer next time.
 
P

pencilpusher

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #38
What the hell are you guys talking about. You all should help each other not matter who we are or what we are doing. I had one question and you guys didnt help instead you started talking garbage about arrogance and lack of communication.

I thank everyone who replied and tried to help.

If you don't like my question or think it is arrogant to ask then why the hell are you on this forum. Isn't this forum suppose to help each other?

Thanks.

Oh dear, see what I mean?
 
S

Silly Sausage

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #39
What the hell are you guys talking about. You all should help each other not matter who we are or what we are doing. I had one question and you guys didnt help instead you started talking garbage about arrogance and lack of communication.

I thank everyone who replied and tried to help.

If you don't like my question or think it is arrogant to ask then why the hell are you on this forum. Isn't this forum suppose to help each other?

Thanks.
The difference between you and a certain other poster, you've shown some appreciation.
 
G

Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #40
....Isn't this forum suposed to help each other?
Help each other - yes
Do your homework for you with minimal effort from yourself - no
I did the 2391 the year before the internet came online , books came to my rescue during revision , maybe try it.
 
G

Guest111

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #41
with apprentices, i always used to find the best communication tool to be a wet rag applied across the head.
You big softie you,with mine it was a length of plastic conny,lol
 

telectrix

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
simple test for end/end. use a megger and an apprentice. croc clip one lead to 1 end of the RFC cable. get the app. to hold the other end in one hand and the other megger lead in the other hand. blast it at 1000v. if he squeals, then you have a circuit
 
G

Guest111

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #43
simple test for end/end. use a megger and an apprentice. croc clip one lead to 1 end of the RFC cable. get the app. to hold the other end in one hand and the other megger lead in the other hand. blast it at 1000v. if he squeals, then you have a circuit
do you reccomend wet or dry apprentices for this test? lol
 
Books Biff? but that means someone will have to do some work! How dare you even think such a thing:)
 
C

claret73

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #46
I only came back onto this site yesterday after a good 6 Months away due to doing other work whilst Sparks was quiet. I finished my qualies 2 years ago. I did nightschool for 3 years. Granted I was working for a couple of Guys and this forum alongside that helped enormously if I had a head scratcher that neither the Spark or College could answer to a satisfying point, but I never leant on this forum like some posts I've read yesterday. Lads realing off C&G question sheets! Initially the thing that attracted me to training as an electrician was the amount of work involved and by knuckling down & thinking the problem through yourself is satisfying and responsible to the point of having learnt.

And if still after sharing your thoughts it's not kicking in, we'll all get the help we need from somebody.
 
O

oldtimer

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #47
simple test for end/end. use a megger and an apprentice. croc clip one lead to 1 end of the RFC cable. get the app. to hold the other end in one hand and the other megger lead in the other hand. blast it at 1000v. if he squeals, then you have a circuit
That happened to me when I was serving my time they said they had to measure the resistance in my body so they could calculate the total so like a fool I was up an attic and they shouted Are you holding on tight son Yes I said realy tight Yes I shouted then I screamed
 
A

Anthony King

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48
Unfortunatly the hse now frown upon meggering the apprentice. Apparently ...
 

ackbarthestar

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Mentor
Arms
Tony the prob with the OP was it was misleading ?
It came across as a Q but then as a an exam Q ?
The exam could have said test this RFC ? so do we have interconnects ? spurs ? its so vague mate.

Grumpy you ? LMFAO
J
If I were a newbie to electrical work, attempting to understand what all these different colours were and why there are so many wires stuffed into small boxes on the wall then I think i would be pretty cagey about declaring my ignorance in case someone splattered my developing confidence across the carpet.....

Having said that I suppose I should come clean and declare myself as Ulrika 38,24,36 and I usually get my bits out when I'm on site.
 
If I were a newbie to electrical work, attempting to understand what all these different colours were and why there are so many wires stuffed into small boxes on the wall then I think i would be pretty cagey about declaring my ignorance in case someone splattered my developing confidence across the carpet.....

Having said that I suppose I should come clean and declare myself as Ulrika 38,24,36 and I usually get my bits out when I'm on site.
Ulrika I think you're wrong. I reckon if someone came on and said all that I reckon they'd get a lot more help than slating. I'd be very willing to help.
You do realise that your real ID will be disregarded from now on don't you:)
 
1

1shortcircuit

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #51
Like every single member on here I too have had to study.

There is nothing wrong in not knowing the answer. NOBODY knows everything.

My beef on this forum is far too many posters just jump in with a question and expect the answer handed to them on a plate. This will not get you anywhere as when you sit your exams you do so by yourself without your phones so how will you pass the exam not KNOWING the answer???

It would be greatly appreciated if posters could post a question with at least some kind of addition to what they think or what it is exactly they don't understand.

This question was probably one of the most stupidist things I have ever seen posted!

If you're not getting N-N but getting L-L, E-E continuity then it blatantly means that there is MOST DEFINITELY an interruption somewhere. Divide and conquer and you'll find exactly where!!!

Normally you can see the exam questions posted a mile off just by the title.

As for the attitude? Well seems he'll make an excellent spark in that department so long as he/she can master the words "Get a spark in" for replies on this forum lol

Ta ta for now :D

:thumbsup
 

ackbarthestar

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Mentor
Arms
Ulrika I think you're wrong. I reckon if someone came on and said all that I reckon they'd get a lot more help than slating. I'd be very willing to help.
You do realise that your real ID will be disregarded from now on don't you:)
I think in a perfect world we would be very happy to help those who are struggling to understand the basic concepts of both the theory and practice to this trade/profession. But it doesn't take that much to raise the hackles when some newbie asks what he thinks is an intelligent post to find someone or a group of someones jump out of the woodwork , and as for my new persona, I think I'll go back to Kevin-with-fishnets.....
 
I do think there is a real possibility that some of the young kids are going to think more than twice about looking for help on this site if we are not careful.
Does it really matter whether the question is a job specific question or to do with college? I can easily understand why they are not up front occasionally if they are going to have to face some of the responses evident in this thread.
Yes the question was obvious, but that is indicative of a young student struggling. Surely if he finds the answer to his question (easily) here, coupled with a good explanation to it,how can that be a bad thing?
I really think we should be accessible to these kids and answer politely all questions, stupid or sensible. As regards 'attitude' we should lead by example.
 
O

oldtimer

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #54
Dagrat I dont think it is to do with attitude and I have mentioned this before a lot of guys like me are still alive and kicking because the guys we trained with expected high standards because they had that self discipline that sadly is lacking today so if you are expecting touchy feely then forget it and if you take this personally then more fool you because its you that needs to learn and what amazes me is the I have a problem you sort it out for me because I am too lazy to learn plus I am a gentle soul. Nope here is the deal you want my knowledge then start by showing me respect and have the humility to thank me when it works out.

Plus you want to learn well here is a few tips when asking a question give as much info as you can and add some pictures so for example why is the Zs so high ? should be Why is the Zs so high here is the Zs ,Ze PFC,PSSC, and IR readings and some pictures.

Now after reading this you may be thinking who the hell does he think he is and I wont be spoken to like this then you are in the wrong game as one of my tradesman used to say some of you laddies think I am having a go at you but I am making sure that you are learning and you are taking it in because son I am a professional and its not personal but if you turn out to be a fool who has not got a clue then this will reflect on me.

I have said this before anyone posting on this forum should have to accept that fools will not be tolerated because electricity is a serious business
 
Old timer I think you have taken my comments personally. I was not attempting to insult anyone, I was purely making a few observations. We have to understand that when a question is posted we can answer it or leave it, it's that simple. I dont think anyone is expecting a "touchy freely" response From anyone. i suggest that as each question is made in a few lines, it is almost impossible to take anything personally and even easier to get the wrong impression of the op.
This is borne out by your reference to me as a "laddie" and "son", because I started sparking in the 1970s and now with almost 40 years in the game. ( although I'm grateful for the compliment)
All I'm suggesting is that what might seem a ludicrous question to you and me, only requires a response or ignore it. But bear in mind that a positive response reflects far more favourably on all of us on this forum.
The background you speak of was very similar to mine, but I am grateful to many of the older sparks in those days for answering my questions with patience.
 

Jimmy Boy

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Arms
dagrat I read your post with a degree of disbelief I truly did, his first post was this...

I am carrying out the continuity for a ring final test for a single phase TN-S system. When doing the end to end Neutral I don't get a reading!! What is wrong here and what Code does apply (Code 1-3)?

Many Thanks.
Does this sound like a student asking for help ?

After many helpful posts he decides to tell us this..........

It is for my exam. I did it today and there is tomorrow. but I cant understand if there is no reading for N-N does that mean that the ring is discontinues and therefore code 2 is used? Or is it incorrect polarity?

In response to your other comments see below..

I do think there is a real possibility that some of the young kids are going to think more than twice about looking for help on this site if we are not careful.
Does it really matter whether the question is a job specific question or to do with college? YES I can easily understand why they are not up front occasionally if they are going to have to face some of the responses evident in this thread.Well who's fault is that then ? IF he had been upfront and said he was having difficult getting his head around things he would have got the appropriate response ?
Yes the question was obvious, but that is indicative of a young student struggling.He didn't say he was a Student if he had he would have received 'Student' advice Surely if he finds the answer to his question (easily) here, coupled with a good explanation to it,how can that be a bad thing? It's not but show a little respect for people that are providing this easy option
I really think we should be accessible to these kids and answer politely all questions, stupid or sensible. As regards 'attitude' we should lead by example.
Any response is tailored to the OP, if your not honest and give the impression you are working on installations without the faintest idea what you are doing of, you will get what you deserve, usually chastisement in one form or the other

ATB J
 
Jimmy boy, yes this op did not immediately state the question was for college, but he may have had his reasons, possibly thought he might be given a hard time, I don't know. But that is not the point I was making. This is an open forum where many individuals from all areas of the industry meet to exchange information. We all have the choice of answering the question or not. Neither you or I know this individual or his personnel circumstances, and quite right. All we have to do is ignore him if that is what we think.
My main point was, looking over the thread, other students may become more reticent about posting. My own opinion, which you obviously disagree with, is that a more positive attitude will be far more beneficial in the long run. So if you don't like the attitude of an op, ignore him, vice versa if someone wants to respond then that's fine too.
consequently there were many positive responses from others to this op.
I am mystified that the comments I made have caused such anger as that was not my intention.
Lets agree to disagree shall we?
 
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