RCBO's Can the excess wires from them be cut off??

[BillyTheSparks]

Hi,

I was talking to another sparks that I know, and the conversation swayed onto leaving the wires from the RCBO's and not just cutting them off.
The conversation was cut short though and the reasons were not made to me to leave them as is.

And seeing another thread in the 'Electricians Arms' reminded me of this conversation; so I was just wondering.

Should they be left alone or can they be cut off?

Should this only be discussed in the 'E.A'?

I have no opinon as yet to this, so would greatly accept any veiws.


Cheers Billy.

 

[spark 68]

Follow manufacturers instructions.

I have cut them off before (and re-crimped), as I don't see it makes any difference in my personal opinion, but if the manufacturer says don't, then don't, or you may not be able to return a faulty item.

 

[Darkwood]

Nothing wrong cutting them shorter but it limits you for future alteration or re-use and because the cables are tri-rated they are required to have a crimped end to give good solid contact within termination.

 

[BillyTheSparks]

Nothing wrong cutting them shorter but it limits you for future alteration or re-use and because the cables are tri-rated they are required to have a crimped end to give good solid contact within termination.

Ok sounds good as I have cut them shorter before (too many in a main switch board) and I understand the 'no use after it's done' thinking, but what is tri-rated? and if cut should i crimp the ends with a point terminal to make into board teminals?

 

[Engineer54]

I have to laugh, every time i here this, ....Why would a manufacturer state that the shouldn't and can't be cut to size to suit your CU arrangement?? Where this myth came from i will never know!! ...i suppose going by the same argument, you shouldn't cut to size the functional earth lead either?? Come on now guy's, lets get real here!! lol!!!

 

[Darkwood]

Ok sounds good as I have cut them shorter before (too many in a main switch board) and I understand the 'no use after it's done' thinking, but what is tri-rated? and if cut should i crimp the ends with a point terminal to make into board teminals?

Tri-rated is the construction of the cores and in this case for flexibilty and sometimes reduction in CSA they use multi-stranded singles (many more strands than standard stranded singles), these type of cables are more common in control panels etc but for good termination its required they be crimped before termination.

 

[Guest123]

Chop em, re-ferrule em, jobs a good un.:icon4:

 

[yellowvanman]

Tri-rated is the construction of the cores and in this case for flexibilty and sometimes reduction in CSA they use multi-stranded singles (many more strands than standard stranded singles), these type of cables are more common in control panels etc but for good termination its required they be crimped before termination.

These can be defined a 'fine wire' conductors and in which case they shouldn't be subjected to a screw termination without being crimped.

Not saying your wrong darkwood - just using your description as a reference.

 

[imago]

I have to laugh, every time i here this, ....Why would a manufacturer state that the shouldn't and can't be cut to size to suit your CU arrangement?? Where this myth came from i will never know!! ...i suppose going by the same argument, you shouldn't cut to size the functional earth lead either?? Come on now guy's, lets get real here!! lol!!!

I was given the reasoning as stated in a couple of other posts, the manufacturers couldn't be sure that ferrules would be used. If they were would they be the right type and properly crimped? Basically it's fine to cut them if it could be certain that it was done by an electrician, as opposed to a shaved monkey with a pair of snips.

 

[Engineer54]

I was given the reasoning as stated in a couple of other posts, the manufacturers couldn't be sure that ferrules would be used. If they were would they be the right type and properly crimped? Basically it's fine to cut them if it could be certain that it was done by an electrician, as opposed to a shaved monkey with a pair of snips.

That's really nothing to do with the manufacturer is it?? If they were that worried about it, which i'm sure they aren't, they would include the crimped ferrule recommendation to there installation leaflet.

But your right these fine multi strand neutral fly leads, on these RCBOs do require a crimped ferrule. But that is no reasonable reason for not cutting to size to suit the CU installation...

 

[Doomed]

and really, how many of us carry around the correct size ferrules (what size are they anyway).
I only carry 0.75, 1.0 and 1.5 ferrules.

 

[Darkwood]

and really, how many of us carry around the correct size ferrules (what size are they anyway).
I only carry 0.75, 1.0 and 1.5 ferrules.

Your right most domestic sparkies dont even possess ferrules or crimping tool, so in that case they shouldn't shorten them, i build control panels so have ferrule nightmares but at least i got the correct size which is dependent on rcbo rating.

 

[imago]

But your right these fine multi strand neutral fly leads, on these RCBOs do require a crimped ferrule. But that is no reasonable reason for not cutting to size to suit the CU installation...

It is if you're cutting off a correctly sized and crimped ferrule fitted by the manufacturer. I'm not disagreeing by the way, you do hear some odd tales about shortening the leads which make no sense. The ferrule arguement is the only one I've heard which makes any sense to me.

 

[Engineer54]

and really, how many of us carry around the correct size ferrules (what size are they anyway).
I only carry 0.75, 1.0 and 1.5 ferrules.

Surely that's your problem, rather than anyone Else's?? If your a domestic sparky and you will be encountering RCBOs on a regular basis, i would be asking Why haven't you got the correct sized ferrules and a crimping tool to suit?? Most of these Neutral tails are far too long for UK domestic CUs. Leaving them uncut just fills a CU full of unnecessary cable and makes the installation look like a Pigs Ear of a job!!!

 

[BillyTheSparks]

I am a domestic sparks and will now be purchasing ferrule crimps and if I need new set of crimpers for these (not sure if the ones I own will be sufficient?)
as others have said before "cover your arse" it might be a pain and cost a little bit more per board, but at least they'll be right.

 

[Engineer54]

I am a domestic sparks and will now be purchasing ferrule crimps and if I need new set of crimpers for these (not sure if the ones I own will be sufficient?)
as others have said before "cover your arse" it might be a pain and cost a little bit more per board, but at least they'll be right.

Probably not, a ferrule crimping tool has a die that wraps the ferrule on the conductor before compressing them solidly together... There not that expensive, even for a decent one!!

 

[BillyTheSparks]

Any advice on make for these E54? And should I just get a selection of ferrules?

 

[Doomed]

I have a selection of crimpers, mostly C.K., make sure you get ratchett crimpers.

 

[PC Electrics]

Personally, in my standard carry-in tool bag I have a pair of ferrule crimpers and non insulated ferrules in all sizes from 0.5 to 10mm. I use them loads:
0.75 and 1.0 on CH systems
1.5 and 2.5 on immersion and storage heater cables
4 and 6 on H07RN-F flexes to ovens and cookers
even put 6s on t&e ends before putting in those great big connectors in showers cos they spread the strands too far.
and as mentioned, 0.5, 4 and 6 on RCBO leads.


I recently attended a 1st amend seminar given by Hager. One of the chaps was Hagers Tech Manager, so I asked him about this myth. He replied that it's fine to cut the leads to length, but they should be ferruled. I replied thanks and btw why don't you supply a pair of spare ferrules with each RCBO then!!

 

[Engineer54]

Personally, in my standard carry-in tool bag I have a pair of ferrule crimpers and non insulated ferrules in all sizes from 0.5 to 10mm. I use them loads:
0.75 and 1.0 on CH systems
1.5 and 2.5 on immersion and storage heater cables
4 and 6 on H07RN-F flexes to ovens and cookers
even put 6s on t&e ends before putting in those great big connectors in showers cos they spread the strands too far.
and as mentioned, 0.5, 4 and 6 on RCBO leads.


I recently attended a 1st amend seminar given by Hager. One of the chaps was Hagers Tech Manager, so I asked him about this myth. He replied that it's fine to cut the leads to length, but they should be ferruled. I replied thanks and btw why don't you supply a pair of spare ferrules with each RCBO then!!

Just as well they don't, ...They'll be the most expensive pair of ferrules you'll ever buy!! ...lol!!!