Discuss RCD after meter & before CU in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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ultinator

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Basically old cu not enough space for rcd inside unit but meter and unit is inside cupboard. Could an rcd be placed before the main switch on a din rail? Would this conform to have it exposed in a cupboard inbetweeb meter and unit. Ideally a board would be replaced but due to time and money client is unwilling for this
 

Taylortwocities

Electrician's Arms
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If you mean that you would put it in the wall-mounted meter box? No. The meter cabinet is reserved for DNO equipment only.

In any case, you cannot have a single 30mA RCD in front of a whole installation. It breaks the rules re division of circuits. An eartn fault on aone circuit would disconnect power to the whole house.

Why do you need to do this? Is it for a new/altered circuit?
 
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U

ultinator

Regular EF Member
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Basically old 3036 fuses with adapted circuit breakers to fit. No room inside (it's not a meter cupboard just a cupboard in kitchen for meter ad unit to hide in)
It was a question I had to ask as I wonder the installation can not have an rcd because it won't fit with the current board. Client doesn't wish to pay out for new board. I wanted to put an rcd on somehow but with a lack of space in the unit I wondered if iit could go before the mainswistch just so the whole install is covered
 
D

Deleted member 26818

It sounds as if you are intending placing the RCD in the cupboard without using an enclosure.
In which case, no it would not be acceptable.

I did ask you on the other thread, what alterations/additions had been made to the circuit.
For instance, have you installed new cabling concealled in walls?
Have you installed new socket-outlets intended for general use?
Have you re-positioned any existing cabling concealled in walls or socket-outlets intended for general use?
If no to any of the above, then you may not be required to provide 30mA RCD protection.
 

Taylortwocities

Electrician's Arms
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That was also my question
Why do you need to do this? Is it for a new/altered circuit?
(above).

Why does an RCD need to be fitted in the first place. An answer to this question (now asked three times) would help us advise you of possible alternative solutions as the one you have in mind is not going to work.
 
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ultinator

Regular EF Member
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Technically nothing has been altered. It is merely from a safety point of view. I know all the implications of using the rcd across a whole board. More curiosity than a need to carry out this work. I was looking at a board, as described above and thought an rcd would be nice to see here. But as I am aware due to the fact I've not interfered with the install I am under no requirement for additional protection.
Also I was thinkin mountin on a din rail in an enclosure. Thanks for pRompt rreplies
 
G

Guest55

Technically nothing has been altered. It is merely from a safety point of view. I know all the implications of using the rcd across a whole board. More curiosity than a need to carry out this work. I was looking at a board, as described above and thought an rcd would be nice to see here. But as I am aware due to the fact I've not interfered with the install I am under no requirement for additional protection.
Also I was thinkin mountin on a din rail in an enclosure. Thanks for pRompt rreplies
So basically , you've done no work on this customers installation but fancy sticking in an up-front rcd just for sh*ts and giggles ?
So when the washing machine goes kaput the whole house loses power ?
Im not surprised the customer isnt willing to pay.
 
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Guitarist

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5,250
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Can we ask what you are actually doing for the customer if not altering any circuits? Have they asked you to provide RCD protection for them and you are trying to find the cheapest way?
 
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ultinator

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yeah ha ****s and giggles, perhaps H+S has gone to my head... Well to be frank I was working with someone doing a periodic...well EICR as it now stands, and it was an old board with poor earthing arrangements which while poor were adequate. The house in question is owned and letted out to students by a friend of the person I was with. Looking at the CU and due to the fact of the nature of students (someone had wedged or broken a socket top off leaving the earth pin in therefore exposing the unshuttered L & N terminals) I thought would an RCD be appropriate here (from the point of view it was a friend and for an extra 20-30 quid it can do alot), the 3036's had new lookin wylex breakers in that resemble the new breaker type yet retained the 3036 pins on the back, breaking capacity of 3KA, while a 17th edition board would be favourable, the costs unsettled the owner who merely stated he was seeking a safet certificate. The EICR would potentially be followed by the works to bring up to regs.
As RCD and an enclosure dont cost very much, yet can do alot in terms of shock protection I queried this idea. The board cant take anymore breakers, a replacement is undesired. to be fair I havent checked to see if these 3036 adaptable things come as RCBO's which I suppose would eliminate any issues.
But it is true this is more a query for the sake of query as opposed to a query to my next step as I doubt I will even be going back to this place.
I hope this hasnt confused matters and would like to acknowledge the time taken to respond, and for that I am grateful.
 

Guitarist

Regular EF Member
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Norfolk
Love that phrase... "the costs unsettled the owner who merely stated he was seeking a safet certificate"

So, he's/she's collecting rent but doesn't want to actually spend any money on the place to make it safer?

Also, you said, "
As RCD and an enclosure dont cost very much...." You can buy a fully loaded BG CU from the shed for not much more than an RCD with an enclosure, so the only difference really would be the time it takes to install and test.


 
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ultinator

Regular EF Member
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178
Location
London
You state "so the only difference really would be the time it takes to install and test." but in this situation 'Time is money' and i'd imagine a homeowner would be more likely to understand the benefits over someone who is collecting rent.

As long as it is 'Safe' they're happy so if it doesn't need it they don't want it.

But who am I to tell them otherwise, advice is only as good as the person receiving it, and as long as it isn't a requirement then it's like the person is a baked cake with lemon and poo inside; looks sweet and innocent on the outside but inside they're bitter and full of sh*t. strange analogy, i know, but im ill and tired.


 
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