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Discuss rcd protection in commercial enviroment in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

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sparkyork

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hi all not been in from work long and cant be bothered reading books!

ive got lots of circuits from lighting to sockets to 16a sockets for fridges etc etc. do they all need rcd protecting?? :D
 
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H

heathelect

hi all not been in from work long and cant be bothered reading books!

ive got lots of circuits from lighting to sockets to 16a sockets for fridges etc etc. do they all need rcd protecting?? :D

got the same prob myself and am unsure, see my thread (dist board change):mad:
 
S

sparkyork

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
yeah just seen yours matey, hopefully someon will come along and clarify!! i feeling lazy/tired!
 

ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
hi all not been in from work long and cant be bothered reading books!

ive got lots of circuits from lighting to sockets to 16a sockets for fridges etc etc. do they all need rcd protecting?? :D
Regs state that any socket <20A has to be protected by an RCD.
 
S

sparkyork

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
cheers ian so what about the lights and other circuits like cooker point, imm heater, fused spurs for electric heaters?

majority of cabling is in metal trunking and on metal perf tray
 
W

wattsup

As far as I'm aware no one has been killed, electricuted, injured from any of my installations over the past 30 years. So I guess the way forward is to make RCD protection law, then any cowboy can have a go. It also creates work work work for government minnions and councillors ( and training agencies, government supported of course)
 
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ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
But if used by competent persons that reg surely doesnt apply ? all replies appreciated thanks dave
Regs do not mention a compotnet person it states in reg 411.3.3 exception when under the use of a SKILLED or INSTRUCTED person, if the place has loads of of cheap eastern labour this may not apply.
 
S

sparkyork

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
so basically then i can stick everything on mcb's, but i will put socket outlets on rcbo's just for peace of mind. am i getting confused with houses where everything is on one!!
 
H

heathelect

Regs do not mention a compotnet person it states in reg 411.3.3 exception when under the use of a SKILLED or INSTRUCTED person, if the place has loads of of cheap eastern labour this may not apply.
Yeah i meant skilled & instructed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so basically then i can stick everything on mcb's, but i will put socket outlets on rcbo's just for peace of mind. am i getting confused with houses where everything is on one!!

sparkyork, this is still a grey area, so come on lads we need more input, rcbos for socket ccts (definately yes) but what about the rest lighting, cookers, water heaters, 3 phase supply to roller shutter door, forklift truck battery chargers, etc, etc, thanks dave.
 
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salisbury spark

Sockets in commercial and industrial premises must have additional protection by means of RCD if they are rated at 20A or less and are for general use without the supervision of a skilled or instructed person.

An exceptionis made for a specific labelled/identified socket -outlet for a particular item of equipment.

IE sockets in common, circulation and public areas - those in self catering areas, those intended for cleaners and those that may be used to supply mobile equipment for use outdoors.

The decision for which sockets should have RCD with refernce to the above should be made with the clients DUTY HOLDER under the EAWR 1989...

This is from the magazine SWITCHED ON - issue 9 summer08
Can download back issues of internet WWW.esc.org.uk

Had to move a double socket at a factory where the circuit was labelled as 'coke machine' (ie refridgeration)- so had no RCD but the other socket was free to be used by cleaners and outdoor equipment with an extension...
Informed sites Electricians who said move it anyway and we will take responsibility...
 
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C

city spark

hi all not been in from work long and cant be bothered reading books!

ive got lots of circuits from lighting to sockets to 16a sockets for fridges etc etc. do they all need rcd protecting?? :D

sparky york the easy answer to your question is yes as if non competent people will be using these sockets lts etc then they require to be protected by rcd although you dont have to have rcd protection on the circuits that supply your fridge freezers as to prevent nuisance tripping hope this helps.
 
S

sparkyork

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
so im gonna have a 54 way board with 35+ rcbo's in it?! getting on for a grand inc vat!
surely this aint right? fair enough socket outlets been on rcd but surely not the main shop lighting etc, seems ridiculous too me. can you quote a reg for this, im aware of the one for socket outlets but is there one for lighting etc?
 
C

coxy

Hi Is this a new installation ?? If so depends on building type - are there any electrical maintenance engineers about ??? if so you could use the get out clause already stated - reg 411.3.3 exception when under the use of a SKILLED or INSTRUCTED person.
If not rcbo everything if cables less than 50 mm in wall,regs apply to all installations - dom,comm,inds
 
S

Spudnik

As Coxy said, ANY cable buried in a wall less than 50mm must be RCD protected, regardless of its function.

The 'use of sockets by skilled persons blah blah blah' rule generally applies to socket outlets and cables installed in cond or trunking.
 
C

coxy

Hi Sparkyork
Did you take this job before the 17th was out ???? if so you could get away with just putting rcd protection to sockets otherwise a new installation to the 17th clearly states that unless cable protected with earthed metalic conduit or 50mm in wall must be rcd protected,you should have put this in price !!!
 

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