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Domestic RCD Spur

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A

a1ant

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Hi all,

Just a quickie hopefully... Wiring in a new boiler which is located in a kitchen.... obviously being in a kitchen requires RCD protection... Is an RCD Spur sufficient to satisfy the requirement for RCD protection?

Hopefully that makes sense :shocked:

Thanks,
Alan
 
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Amp David

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Mentor
Arms
You sure it needs RCD protection?

The cable supplying the spur might do, but the boiler doesn't:dozey:
 
A

a1ant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Lol To be honest I think they do use the sink as a bath, but thats another story!

Sorry I might not have explained myself properly. There will be a wiring centre, 3 Motorised Zone valves Wireless thermostat receiver and Programmer all located next to/under the boiler. I was under the impression that due to this being in a kitchen it would require RCD protection and be classed as an addition to the circuit?

Also let me just explain the situation, I am a qualified plumber by trade, also have Part P Full scope. Normally on boiler jobs I do all the boiler installation/plumbing works, and wire all the controls etc into the wiring centre, and then we have a dedicated (proper) sparks who comes in and does testing and provides power to the wiring centre and certificates notifies etc then I commission the boiler. Anyway, our sparks is away for a month so on this particular job ive been asked to connect it up and do the testing/ notification as well. I will refuse to carry out any work im not confident with, which is why Ive come on here to be honest. I wasn't confident therefore ive asked you experts:bobby:.

So please be gentle with me lol
 

telectrix

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
if your cable feeding the FCU is buried < 50mm deep in a wall, then that cable needs RCD. if surface and/or under floor, then it don't need RCD . and there's no requirement for RCD to the boiler .
 
Only circuits that go into a location containing a bath or a shower have to have RCD protection

Circuits in a kitchen do no, unless you need to bury the cable less that 50mm and even then if you use other methods to protect the cable then you do not need to use an RCD.

The only other time really in a domestic situation where RCDs are required mandatory for the regs are socket outlets.

Also though not mandatory RCDs are virtually always required for TT systems
 

Amp David

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Mentor
Arms
Lol To be honest I think they do use the sink as a bath, but thats another story!

Sorry I might not have explained myself properly. There will be a wiring centre, 3 Motorised Zone valves Wireless thermostat receiver and Programmer all located next to/under the boiler. I was under the impression that due to this being in a kitchen it would require RCD protection and be classed as an addition to the circuit?

Also let me just explain the situation, I am a qualified plumber by trade, also have Part P Full scope. Normally on boiler jobs I do all the boiler installation/plumbing works, and wire all the controls etc into the wiring centre, and then we have a dedicated (proper) sparks who comes in and does testing and provides power to the wiring centre and certificates notifies etc then I commission the boiler. Anyway, our sparks is away for a month so on this particular job ive been asked to connect it up and do the testing/ notification as well. I will refuse to carry out any work im not confident with, which is why Ive come on here to be honest. I wasn't confident therefore ive asked you experts:bobby:.

So please be gentle with me lol
No problem, we will be gentle.

If you're full scope part P then why are you using someone else to do you electrics? You must have your 17th edition if you are registered also and know how to test etc.

Any new cables <50mm will need RCD and the rest if surface mount don't and neither does the boiler.
 
A

a1ant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Hi,

Thanks for all your replies! Feel much better now :glasses2: lol
 
A

a1ant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
If you're full scope part P then why are you using someone else to do you electrics? You must have your 17th edition if you are registered also and know how to test etc
Yes thats correct I am full scope and also have my 17th and and have the test equipment and registered on a CPS. Ill try not to bore you with how, but to cut a long story short, I work for a small cmpany, 3 Plumbers/ Gas engineers, 1 Spark, 2 builders. A few years ago there was a big push on part p and basically it was portrayed to my cmpany that none of us plumbers would be able to even TOUCH anything electrical without part p ie swap a pump. So (at great expense to my cmpany) all three of us were put on full scope part p and 17th edition courses, provided with the test equipment and CPS registration etc. None of us REALLY required part p in my opinion. Our sparks eats sleeps and dreams cables, mcb rcds etc etc so he does EVERYTHING electrical for us. We are spoilt lol. But hes decided to leave us for a month and go sailing with the Mrs!
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
you know to cross bond the boiler pipework don`t you?...
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
heres one for you as well.....you know that as a boiler is classed as a FIXED appliance..it needs to be connected through an FCU..as apposed to a plugtop..now, a plumber i know has had this argument out with gassafe...if out in the sticks he puts boilers on a plugtop.....as the electricity supplies are often overheads and general power outages are common....so if the boiler is on a plugtop you can just run it of a micro-generator....at least the occupants will have heating and hot water......now from what Trevor (plumber) has told me...gassafe have accepted this argument...
 
A

a1ant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
you know to cross bond the boiler pipework don`t you?...
Hi, Most of the pipework will be done in plastic. Also on most of the boilers I fit they have a metallic manifold which cross bonds them all anyway. But will be tested anyway. The main bonds to the incoming water and gas are both present and ok.

Thanks,
Alan
 
A

a1ant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
heres one for you as well.....you know that as a boiler is classed as a FIXED appliance..it needs to be connected through an FCU..as apposed to a plugtop..now, a plumber i know has had this argument out with gassafe...if out in the sticks he puts boilers on a plugtop.....as the electricity supplies are often overheads and general power outages are common....so if the boiler is on a plugtop you can just run it of a micro-generator....at least the occupants will have heating and hot water......now from what Trevor (plumber) has told me...gassafe have accepted this argument...

Hi,

Yes its my understanding that a plug is acceptable as its a form of double pole isolation (required under gas safe regs) However the socket its plugged into must have double pole isolation IF fitted with a switch. Ie if you turn off the switch INSTEAD of pulling the plug, it should still provide double pole isolation.

Alan
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
well thats the same for kitchens as well....DP isolation that is...
 
A

a1ant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
well thats the same for kitchens as well....DP isolation that is...
Yeah the example ive seen before is where you put a new boiler in say a hallway, and you use a plug as the double pole isolation. You then plug it into an old switched socket, which may only be single pole. That wouldnt be acceptable under the regs. As depending on if you either a) remove the plug or b) use the switch when working on/servicing the boiler will determine weather you have double pole isolation or not.
 

Strima

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Arms
Esteemed
Seen it a few times where there's a BS3036 board and a new boiler has been fitted and is connected to an RCD FCU, there's no need for it 99% of the time and it just seems to be wasted money in my eyes as once the cabling leaves the FCU it's normally a bit of hanging flex to the boiler.

Do the installers carry out any form of RCD testing when they fit them? I think I know the answer involves a little yellow button...
 
A

a1ant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
Do the installers carry out any form of RCD testing when they fit them? I think I know the answer involves a little yellow button...
Lol Im sure your right. Surely you would/should test it like you would normally test an RCD. And surely if your fitting it to forfill the requirements of RCD protection to your addition, then the results would need to be documented as such on the certificate.
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
1) OK 544.2.5 suggests otherwise...at which point i have to stand corrected by Mr. Sanford.
2) and again i stand corrected 537.3.2.5 would suggest otherwise....My apologies to all....including Mr. Sanford.
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
OK....don`t know what happened there.....i should have looked more closely at the appropriate reg/s.....but thanks all the same for pointing it out....:hammer:
 

telectrix

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
malc. i'm doing kev's thursday/friday. got all the kit except for the CU. getting that wednedsday.
 
malc. i'm doing kev's thursday/friday. got all the kit except for the CU. getting that wednedsday.
You up to it mate?

I know what Kevs like he would hate to have to do all that paperwork work if you keeled over in his loft................

Don't go knocking your pipe out and be careful:ihih:
 
M

mr murdock

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
just like a snazzy studio flat then...
 

bigspark17

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Arms
how come every single new static caravan that comes off the shelve has a 1gang unswitched socket next to it in the broom cupbord and a bit of flex hanging down with a 3pin socket on the end then.? gassafe must state then that removing the plug is adequate as safe isolation.
 

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