Replacing a standard slimline GE breaker with AFCI on a mulit-wire circuit

[kpierce65]

Hi all! I am new to this forum.
I will be updating an electrical 20 amp circuit from a home built in the early 80s. Since I am modifying a circuit, the NEC requires that I update the existing circuit breaker with an AFCI. As you know, the AFCI is twice as wide as the existing slim line GE circuit breaker. Since the panel is full, I will need to double up on an existing circuit in order to fit in the AFCI.
The thing is, the circuit I am updating is one phase of a multi-wire circuit. I cannot find a 2-pole 20 amp AFCI breaker at an electrical wholesale place nor at a big box store other than a 2-pole 100 amp AFCI.
The other option is that I could add a sub panel off of the 100 amp main panel and move a few circuits over to the sub panel, including the mulitwire circuit that needs the AFCI.
Does anyone have an suggestions on a 2-pole AFCI option? I did see some information where two single AFCI breakers are installed and the neutral terminates one of the AFCI breaker but the two single AFCI breakers will need a tie handle. Thoughts?

 

[Megawatt]

Hi all! I am new to this forum.
I will be updating an electrical 20 amp circuit from a home built in the early 80s. Since I am modifying a circuit, the NEC requires that I update the existing circuit breaker with an AFCI. As you know, the AFCI is twice as wide as the existing slim line GE circuit breaker. Since the panel is full, I will need to double up on an existing circuit in order to fit in the AFCI.
The thing is, the circuit I am updating is one phase of a multi-wire circuit. I cannot find a 2-pole 20 amp AFCI breaker at an electrical wholesale place nor at a big box store other than a 2-pole 100 amp AFCI.
The other option is that I could add a sub panel off of the 100 amp main panel and move a few circuits over to the sub panel, including the mulitwire circuit that needs the AFCI.
Does anyone have an suggestions on a 2-pole AFCI option? I did see some information where two single AFCI breakers are installed and the neutral terminates one of the AFCI breaker but the two single AFCI breakers will need a tie handle. Thoughts?

They don’t make double pole AFCI breakers. What are you doing when you say updating a 20 amp circuit. I need more information on what you want to achieve. Having said that what your doing probably doing don’t require an AFCI breaker It possibly could require a GFCI breaker which is still not going to fit in your panel. Send me more info.

 

[kpierce65]

They don’t make double pole AFCI breakers. What are you doing when you say updating a 20 amp circuit. I need more information on what you want to achieve. Having said that what your doing probably doing don’t require an AFCI breaker It possibly could require a GFCI breaker which is still not going to fit in your panel. Send me more info.

Thank you for the reply.
I think you answered my question where 2-pole AFCI don’t exist. I verified this at the electrical wholesale place.

I made some modifications on two different circuits.
A 15A circuit supplying a bedroom was modified by replacing an existing single gang box with a 2-gang old work box. I added an additional SP switch that controls a new overhead light at the center of the bedroom.

A 20A circuit supplying one of two small appliance circuits in the kitchen was modified. The circuit already runs to an existing GGCI outlet. Because part of the wall was removed, I removed an outlet and moved another existing outlet.

It was my understanding that any circuit modifications made requires the existing CB to be updated with a CAFCI? This is for the state of Minnesota. I can always check with the local inspector on this.

Thank you.

 

[Megawatt]

Thank you for the reply.
I think you answered my question where 2-pole AFCI don’t exist. I verified this at the electrical wholesale place.

I made some modifications on two different circuits.
A 15A circuit supplying a bedroom was modified by replacing an existing single gang box with a 2-gang old work box. I added an additional SP switch that controls a new overhead light at the center of the bedroom.

A 20A circuit supplying one of two small appliance circuits in the kitchen was modified. The circuit already runs to an existing GGCI outlet. Because part of the wall was removed, I removed an outlet and moved another existing outlet.

It was my understanding that any circuit modifications made requires the existing CB to be updated with a CAFCI? This is for the state of Minnesota. I can always check with the local

Thank you.

I’m going to be honest with you and say that I am a master electrician in NC and Florida but I have never heard of a CAFCI. I don’t know what your state requires but I’m pretty sure you are not violating the NEC with the information that you have given me. I have my continuing education class for 2022 coming up next month and I will ask him but I think that your inspector will agree with me. You can’t install something that doesn’t exist

 

[kpierce65]

I’m going to be honest with you and say that I am a master electrician in NC and Florida but I have never heard of a CAFCI. I don’t know what your state requires but I’m pretty sure you are not violating the NEC with the information that you have given me. I have my continuing education class for 2022 coming up next month and I will ask him but I think that your inspector will agree with me. You can’t install something that doesn’t exist

I have to be honest as well. I was at a big box store and happened to notice that there are now DAFCI (Dual Function AFCI) and CAFCI Combination AFCI) breakers now. I had to Google those to see what they are.
Thank you for your help on this. You have a valid point on the existence of slimline AFCI breaker.

 

[Megawatt]

I have to be honest as well. I was at a big box store and happened to notice that there are now DAFCI (Dual Function AFCI) and CAFCI Combination AFCI) breakers now. I had to Google those to see what they are.
Thank you for your help on this. You have a valid point on the existence of slimline AFCI breaker.

Well I just learned something new. Have a good day my friend

 

[Megawatt]

Well I just learned something new. Have a good day my friend

I goggled CAFCI breakers and they look exactly like a Regular AFCI breaker so I guess they do make them. I’m curious what exactly protection they give you besides being arc fault, short circuit protection and overload protection

 

[kpierce65]

I goggled CAFCI breakers and they look exactly like a Regular AFCI breaker so I guess they do make them. I’m curious what exactly protection they give you besides being arc fault, short circuit protection and overload protectionThe AFCI only detected parallel arcing (hot-to-neutral or an arc to ground) in the protected circuit.

So, as you know, the AFCI only detects parallel arcing (hot-to-neutral or an arc to ground) in the protected circuit.

I found this information on how much better CAFCI are over the AFCI.
AFCI breakers did not recognize series arcing (between a small gap or frayed area in the same wire), so the combo-AFCI or CAFCI was developed, which has that additional capability.
Good luck to you!

 

[Megawatt]

Hi all! I am new to this forum.
I will be updating an electrical 20 amp circuit from a home built in the early 80s. Since I am modifying a circuit, the NEC requires that I update the existing circuit breaker with an AFCI. As you know, the AFCI is twice as wide as the existing slim line GE circuit breaker. Since the panel is full, I will need to double up on an existing circuit in order to fit in the AFCI.
The thing is, the circuit I am updating is one phase of a multi-wire circuit. I cannot find a 2-pole 20 amp AFCI breaker at an electrical wholesale place nor at a big box store other than a 2-pole 100 amp AFCI.
The other option is that I could add a sub panel off of the 100 amp main panel and move a few circuits over to the sub panel, including the mulitwire circuit that needs the AFCI.
Does anyone have an suggestions on a 2-pole AFCI option? I did see some information where two single AFCI breakers are installed and the neutral terminates one of the AFCI breaker but the two single AFCI breakers will need a tie handle. Thoughts?

Could you please explain what exactly what your trying to achieve. They do not make double pole AFCI breakers.