Discuss Rerouting fire and emergency lighting wiring in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

mgmti

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The fire and emergency lighting wiring has been surface mounted up the stairs. All been certified.

My question is, I have been asked to hide the wiring, preferably behind the wall surface etc.

Are there any regulations and would I need to get it recertified?

Any other info required, please ask.

TIA
Patrick
 
are you going to be disconnecting any of the cabling? or just chasing it in? if chasing in, beware of burying it in non=prescribed zones.
 
I was thinking of putting it in ducting (where needed and labeled) in the wall. To do that I would need to disconnect / reconnect the wires.
From what you are saying, I therefore need to get the fire system re-certified? I wont be adding any new wiring, just using the existing wiring.

The installation is up some communal stairs in a house converted to flats. (if that makes any difference)

TIA
Patrick
 
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You may well be okay, so long as you're happy disconnecting and re-connecting - and there's enough slack cable on each.

What concerns me a little more is that the fire cable should NOT be run with the emergency lighting cable - they should be segregated. Um - that is, they should be if these aren't actually mains smoke detectors you mean, and you have a full fire alarm system.
 
You may well be okay, so long as you're happy disconnecting and re-connecting - and there's enough slack cable on each.

What concerns me a little more is that the fire cable should NOT be run with the emergency lighting cable - they should be segregated. Um - that is, they should be if these aren't actually mains smoke detectors you mean, and you have a full fire alarm system.

The red fire cable wont be put in the same ducting as the white emergency lighting.
All I am trying to do is disconnect the wires, put them in different ducting, then reconnect. The fire wiring new route will be more direct and therefor I may re-terminate any excess.
The emergency wiring will take the same route as the existing due to the location of the lights etc.

Do I need to get this re-certified then?

TIA
Patrick
 
Tested, certainly - re-certified, probably not. You don't appear to be materially changing design in either case.

But yes, certainly tested to ensure all works as designed.
 
You might have to add RCD protection to any LV cables that you bury into the wall less than 50mm unless it is in mechanical protection.
 
You might have to add RCD protection to any LV cables that you bury into the wall less than 50mm unless it is in mechanical protection.

True - though BS5839 still contradicts itself on this point. It conversely asks for all wiring installed in compliance with BS7671, and then tells you (I forget the clause immediately) to ensure the fire alarm system is supplied on a dedicated fuse way without RCD protection!

This, the argument goes, is to minimise nuisance alarm sources. But then, the spur supplying the alarm system should also be cabled in fire retardant cable too......

Of course, the fire alarm cable, if indeed it's a full fire system, should only be carrying ELV at 24VDC, assuming it's a field cable and not the supply.

For emergency lighting..... again, the standard calls for fire retardant cable - and allows for wiring from a local lighting circuit..... essentially when you install emergency lighting to an existing circuit that's an MWC right away. There isalso the argument that it's barely worth using FP200 on locally added fittings - given the remainder of the circuit is most usually PVC anyhow.

I'm largely in favour of wholly separate circuits for emergency lighting, complete with test point, and triggered on failure of local lighting by means of detection at the MCB/fuse way. I acknowledge however, this is not always practical.

On the basis that emergency lighting also should comply with the wiring requirements of BS7671, I see only the normal issues with putting lighting circuits on RCD protected ways. Can we all say "RCD TRIPPED - must be another blown lamp".....

Final point - for ourselves, anywhere we bury cable for fire, lighting or similar, we put in in metal conduit and accessories, whatever voltage the cable is carrying - although many no longer do.
 
to ensure the fire alarm system is supplied on a dedicated fuse way without RCD protection!

providing that the LV cable supplying the alarm is wired surface, or complies with 522.6.101 (i), (ii),(iii) or (iv). RCD is nor required.


 
to ensure the fire alarm system is supplied on a dedicated fuse way without RCD protection!

providing that the LV cable supplying the alarm is wired surface, or complies with 522.6.101 (i), (ii),(iii) or (iv). RCD is nor required.



Yup - that's part of the contradiction....as said, BS5839 and 7671 contradict themselves in several places :)
 

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