Responsibility for installing Main Bonding Conductors

[scanner]

Bugger that's supposed to say BONDING not BOINDING !

-----------------

I've been asked to install a new CU at my mother in law's.

She has recently had a new kitchen installed where new lights, and extra sockets were added (circuit extended) for the fridge and (gas) cooker.
These sockets BTW are surface mounted 2 gang boxes but are just laid on the ground underneath the kitchen units.. they actually look like they've just been slung there.

Apart from workmanship, my concern is that I can see 2 x 10mm bonding cables leaving the old consumer unit and disappearing through the wall towards the kitchen.

I've found the main gas valve (in the kitchen) but there is no bonding attached. It is also impossible to find the main water valve as the whole back of the unit under the sink has been boxed in.

My question is:

If electrical work such as this has been carried out, is it the installer's responsibility to ensure bonding is installed even though nothing was done "back to the board"

I would have thought this would have fallen under notifiable work as it's in a kitchen. As it stands they didn't receive any certification at all.

It also doesn't fill me with confidence that the feed to the under counter lighting has exposed insulation ,

It's a fifth floor flat and the gas meter is downstairs. According to reg 544.1.2 main bonding should be attached as close as reasonably practicable to the point of entry of the premises.

At the moment I can't see any !!!!.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Should I give the installer a call to give him a -------ing… or should I just go ahead and rip her nice new kitchen out ?

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Al

 

[GLENNSPARK]

YES! you have a duty to ensure that adiquate bonding (10mm) is in place and all bonding clamps are secure by both visual inspection and testing (R2=0.05 ohms max) before you do any install/alterations........

 

[scanner]

Thank you,

but that wasn't my question.

I have no intention of doing any work until the bonding is in place. Hence the comment on ripping the kitchen out
(to put it in).

My question was whether the previous installer should have ensured it was there before sealing the whole damn kitchen up.

Thanks,

Al

 

[Des 56]

131.8 will confirm your thoughts

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I would say yes scanner. Seems that some jerk has been in there as you mentioned exposed insulation and surface boxes inappropriatly installed etc n all......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Have you done an R2 to check that bonds arn`t in place or there`s a high value?

 

[tony mc]

As above and yes its notifiable work and I would be asking for the certificate for the Kitchen company.

Has the old CU a RCD/RCBO for the new socket outlets in the kitchen as it should !!!

 

[scanner]

Thanks for the replys guys.

I just popped round today to look at it..
I'll be doing an R2 when I go round next.
However I feel the results would be somewhat moot as I can't confirm any low reading i get is due to bondig being in place.
It may be due to parallel paths and I'd have to rip things up to confirm main bonding is installed anyway.

I just brushed up on my definitions and extending a circuit in a kitchen is notifiable (how did I forget?)... this just gets better and better.

The board is an old wylex with push button mcbs, so that should have been changed too because the circuit was extended / moved.

It should be an interesting phone call tomorow.

 

[telectrix]

sounds like a john wayne kitchen

 

[tony mc]

Best of luck keep us updated!!

 

[scanner]

Will do, thanks.

Al

 

[JUD]

I'll be doing an R2 when I go round next.
However I feel the results would be somewhat moot as I can't confirm any low reading i get is due to bondig being in place.
It may be due to parallel paths and I'd have to rip things up to confirm main bonding is installed anyway.

Remove the bonding conductors from the main earthing terminal when you do your R2 tests. This will eliminate any parallel paths.

 

[scanner]

Remove the bonding conductors from the main earthing terminal when you do your R2 tests. This will eliminate any parallel paths.

Ah, ha !

Of course, you're absolutely right.

If I were to test between the disconnected end at the CU to the origin of the gas or water pipework... and I got a low reading.

Would that be enough proof to tick the "Main Bonding Present" box on a Installation certificate...

Or would I need to see where the bonding attaches to the pipework and the presence of a BS951 clamp ?

Thanks,

Al

 

[JUD]

Ah, ha !

Of course, you're absolutely right.

If I were to test between the disconnected end at the CU to the origin of the gas or water pipework... and I got a low reading. -- This is how you should be doing it anyway

Would that be enough proof to tick the "Main Bonding Present" box on a Installation certificate... -- If you get a reading of ≤ 0.05Ω I would say yes.

Or would I need to see where the bonding attaches to the pipework and the presence of a BS951 clamp ? -- 526.3 Everey connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance......

Thanks,

Al

I would change the CU, check you've got a connection on the bonding and make a note on the existing installation part of the cert. that you couldn't find bonding connections but you have proved that bonding is in place by doing an R2 test.

You are only responsible for the work YOU​ carry out anyway which is CU change only.

 

[scanner]

I would change the CU, check you've got a connection on the bonding and make a note on the existing installation part of the cert. that you couldn't find bonding connections but you have proved that bonding is in place by doing an R2 test.

You are only responsible for the work YOU​ carry out anyway which is CU change only.

Thanks JUD,

Great advise.

You'e put my mind at rest.

Al

 

[Zeno]

So no Certificates, no Notification, no RCD on final ring circuit alteration, no bonding to gas, sockets chucked under the units.

You can see why some companies want to get kitchens made non notifiable under Part P MK2, complying with regulations is so costly. - :smiley2:

 

[jamie-spark]

here is something for you reguarding the max 0.05ohms on a bonding conductor. We were doing work at a college, there was no boinding in place and had multiple points to bond. Some were mega distances away and have always selected them with regs and the 0.05 sum. Anyway the supply is TNS so the bonding conductor size is 25mm max due to supply caracteristics ect. Some of our runs were working out to be 120mm. We contacted the IET and were told the 0.05ohm is a falicy and they dont know where it cam from and as stated in the regs the maximum size of a bonding conductor for tns is 25mm MAX

 

[jase]

I would be straight on the phone to the kitchen company and/or trading standards, if they have done the work themselves they should be part p defined scope at least or if they have used a sparky then you would expect them to be part p full scope