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Hi, after having a somewhat bad experience with a previous sparky and having to get the work fixed I'm after some advice with regards to some additional work I'd like done. I don't want to have similar issues. I'm not an electrician, I can wire a dash-cam and that is as far as I want to go, that said, I have been reading up in the hope of educating myself to what should be done so I can avoid problems next time.

We are planning to have the house rewired (all but kitchen, as that's a job for later...), built 1960s and still have the original cables. I have been reading up on stuff, given my last bad experience and have a few questions so I can make sure the work is done correctly this time.

1. We have a few of those rubbish paramount walls, with cardboard in the middle. Should I ask for metal conduit or is the mirroring rule enough?

2. We would like some outside lights to be put up, standard lantern light by the front door (sensor) and one by the back door that we can switch on from the kitchen/living room. They will need to drill through the cavity etc, should they use a conduit? Reading up, some say no, some say yes?

3. New boiler arriving soon, should this now be on a separate circuit/ring, or whatever its technically called?

4. Cables in loft, currently they are buried under insulation, attached to the rafters with metal clips. I have read that the cables get hot and lose power (OK, i know that's not the technical term) so should be laid above the insulation but some say it doesn't matter. If they are laid over the insulation, should they be in conduits to protect an idiot like me catching on them at a later date when putting junk up there. I can understand the sparky's preference to not spend hours up there attaching clips to rafters etc and just laying the cables over the insulation but is that the correct way?

5. Wired smoke alarms, really necessary? I was thinking just battery powered ones. If yes, should they be on a separate circuit or on a lighting circuit? Again, opinion seems divided.

I know that's a lot, but just want to make sure the work is done properly this time round, so I can avoid problems.
 
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Pete999

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Hi, after having a somewhat bad experience with a previous sparky and having to get the work fixed I'm after some advice with regards to some additional work I'd like done. I don't want to have similar issues. I'm not an electrician, I can wire a dash-cam and that is as far as I want to go, that said, I have been reading up in the hope of educating myself to what should be done so I can avoid problems next time.

We are planning to have the house rewired (all but kitchen, as that's a job for later...), built 1960s and still have the original cables. I have been reading up on stuff, given my last bad experience and have a few questions so I can make sure the work is done correctly this time.

1. We have a few of those rubbish paramount walls, with cardboard in the middle. Should I ask for metal conduit or is the mirroring rule enough?

2. We would like some outside lights to be put up, standard lantern light by the front door (sensor) and one by the back door that we can switch on from the kitchen/living room. They will need to drill through the cavity etc, should they use a conduit? Reading up, some say no, some say yes?

3. New boiler arriving soon, should this now be on a separate circuit/ring, or whatever its technically called?

4. Cables in loft, currently they are buried under insulation, attached to the rafters with metal clips. I have read that the cables get hot and lose power (OK, i know that's not the technical term) so should be laid above the insulation but some say it doesn't matter. If they are laid over the insulation, should they be in conduits to protect an idiot like me catching on them at a later date when putting junk up there. I can understand the sparky's preference to not spend hours up there attaching clips to rafters etc and just laying the cables over the insulation but is that the correct way?

5. Wired smoke alarms, really necessary? I was thinking just battery powered ones. If yes, should they be on a separate circuit or on a lighting circuit? Again, opinion seems divided.

I know that's a lot, but just want to make sure the work is done properly this time round, so I can avoid problems.
Danny I realise you have had some bad work done point :

You mentioned you wanted your House rewired minus the Kitchen, I guess this is a financial decision, well in my book its a bad decision on your part two lots of upheaval and disruption, take your time, it's a huge financial Burdon on your finances
I know but try and hang on until you can afford the complete rewire, once the cables are installed they can be made safe until you have the funds for completion.

As for should I ask for conduits etc, the installation will be down to the Contractor doing the work. which brings me to my next point.
Don't go for the cheapest quote, especially, if it's a lot less than the rest, this may indicate it's Dave from the pub quoting, after some readies for Beer and Fags.

Get two or three quotes, research the Guys quoting , ask for references from past customers, ask if it's possible to see previous work, some contractors will photograph completed work, for just this reason, I used to anyway.

Don't rush your decision take your time, discuss with Her in Doors if you have one, Draw up a contract with the winner of the quotation, decide on stage payments, first fix second fix etc and a small percentage held back for snagging purposes. Make sure you are issued with certificates (Electrical Installation Certificates) EICs, Part P, notifications, not to sure about that. if you are having any Gas work done , new boiler or something make sure you get the right documentation for that as well, if there are any works that are needed but not in the contact, make sure you keep a diary of times and materials, especially arrival and leaving times, just in case of any disputes, try and get hold of some deviation forms that you could issue to the contractor, keeping copies for your records, you could operate as a Project Leader but don't interfere just make note of your concerns for discussion if it warrants it, above all good luck you can always come on here for advice, should you need it.:eek::D
 
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  • #3
Danny I realise you have had some bad work done point :

You mentioned you wanted your House rewired minus the Kitchen, I guess this is a financial decision, well in my book its a bad decision on your part two lots of upheaval and disruption, take your time, it's a huge financial Burdon on your finances
I know but try and hang on until you can afford the complete rewire, once the cables are installed they can be made safe until you have the funds for completion.

As for should I ask for conduits etc, the installation will be down to the Contractor doing the work. which brings me to my next point.
Don't go for the cheapest quote, especially, if it's a lot less than the rest, this may indicate it's Dave from the pub quoting, after some readies for Beer and Fags.

Get two or three quotes, research the Guys quoting , ask for references from past customers, ask if it's possible to see previous work, some contractors will photograph completed work, for just this reason, I used to anyway.

Don't rush your decision take your time, discuss with Her in Doors if you have one, Draw up a contract with the winner of the quotation, decide on stage payments, first fix second fix etc and a small percentage held back for snagging purposes. Make sure you are issued with certificates (Electrical Installation Certificates) EICs, Part P, notifications, not to sure about that. if you are having any Gas work done , new boiler or something make sure you get the right documentation for that as well, if there are any works that are needed but not in the contact, make sure you keep a diary of times and materials, especially arrival and leaving times, just in case of any disputes, try and get hold of some deviation forms that you could issue to the contractor, keeping copies for your records, you could operate as a Project Leader but don't interfere just make note of your concerns for discussion if it warrants it, above all good luck you can always come on here for advice, should you need it.:eek::D
Hi, the kitchen needs to be totally ripped out, and will be all redone next year, with rewire. We are doing the rest of the bomb site at the moment.

Thanks for the advice, the first muppet wasnt the cheapest, had recommendation from the neighbour, NAPIT etc. Just a bad apple I guess.

Resistance is futile ;)
 

Midwest

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1) Don't know what a paramount wall is?
2) Putting a piece of plastic conduit through a wall is a good idea, but loads of sparks don't bother. Its not a game changer.
3) Boiler on a separate circuit, might mean you'll have heating in the middle of winter, if someone :rolleyes: chops through your sockets circuit on a weekend. But again, no a game changer. Must stop using these football metaphors.
4) Lighting cables laid under loft insulation is not a concern, enough wiggle room in their rating factor. Supply for an electric shower, for example might be a different matter.
5) Wired smoke alarms are required by Part P regs, not so for a rewire of an existing property, but why wouldn't you? Some say put them on a lighting circuit, so you know if the power has gone off.

Re the kitchen, have the necessary cables installed to a convenient point above the kitchen ceiling, less hassle and mess for the future.
 

Baddegg

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@Midwest.....paramount walls are the devils work think of the inside of cheap doors, cardboard lattice with a sheet of 12-15mm plasterboard either side...
 
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1) Don't know what a paramount wall is?
2) Putting a piece of plastic conduit through a wall is a good idea, but loads of sparks don't bother. Its not a game changer.
3) Boiler on a separate circuit, might mean you'll have heating in the middle of winter, if someone :rolleyes: chops through your sockets circuit on a weekend. But again, no a game changer. Must stop using these football metaphors.
4) Lighting cables laid under loft insulation is not a concern, enough wiggle room in their rating factor. Supply for an electric shower, for example might be a different matter.
5) Wired smoke alarms are required by Part P regs, not so for a rewire of an existing property, but why wouldn't you? Some say put them on a lighting circuit, so you know if the power has gone off.

Re the kitchen, have the necessary cables installed to a convenient point above the kitchen ceiling, less hassle and mess for the future.
Thanks for the advice.

Paramount wall... cardboard eggshell sandwich between plasterboard. It was a cheap way of building...

Smoke alarms.. Being a tight arse basically...

Good idea with kitchen. Though to be fair we are very lucky the fuse box is next to the kitchen, so when its done the sparky will have an easy time. We have a random orange cable running around the garden, not armoured etc that comes out the kitchen and around the garden... proper pikey job so that will be fun for him finding out where it comes from.
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@Midwest.....paramount walls are the devils work think of the inside of cheap doors, cardboard lattice with a sheet of 12-15mm plasterboard either side...
They are rubbish but not much we can do. Really don't want to replace and create more work.

And don't get them wet.. its like Gremlins.
 
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  • #9
Yep seen that in circa 2010 builds round here, disgraceful way to build a house
2010? That's taking the ----.
 

Midwest

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Arms
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Don't skimp on smoke alarms, think about carbon monoxide detector for gas boiler as well.
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Yep seen that in circa 2010 builds round here, disgraceful way to build a house
We're posh round here now, wood cls battens, or metal frames.:cool:
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Don't like this new merging thing @Dan :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Don't skimp on smoke alarms, think about carbon monoxide detector for gas boiler as well.
Post automatically merged:


We're posh round here now, wood cls battens, or metal frames.:cool:
Post automatically merged:

Don't like this new merging thing @Dan :)
I think the wired ones it is then? I read you can connect them up so the all go off? What is best, the wired versions of radio ones?
 

Andy78

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I think the wired ones it is then? I read you can connect them up so the all go off? What is best, the wired versions of radio ones?
A great idea to have mains powered ones when rewiring, just makes so much sense.
Choose Aico as a brand, and whether radio base or hard wired interlink they work out about the same costwise as the cost of a radio base and supply to each detector will balance out with the cost of running a cable between detectors.
 

Dan

Admin
Don't skimp on smoke alarms, think about carbon monoxide detector for gas boiler as well.
Post automatically merged:


We're posh round here now, wood cls battens, or metal frames.:cool:
Post automatically merged:

Don't like this new merging thing @Dan :)
Just edit your post then rather than clicking reply on everything. You've got 90 minutes to edit your last post.
 
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  • #14
A great idea to have mains powered ones when rewiring, just makes so much sense.
Choose Aico as a brand, and whether radio base or hard wired interlink they work out about the same costwise as the cost of a radio base and supply to each detector will balance out with the cost of running a cable between detectors.
Thanks, I was thinking what brand. What would you install in your own house (wired vs radio)?
 

Andy78

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Thanks, I was thinking what brand. What would you install in your own house (wired vs radio)?
If fully rewiring then wired. Radio links are designed for when disruption to the building fabric is undesirable, say if just adding smoke alarms but no other work is being done, or for awkward cable runs.

I'd use the Aico 160 series with 10 year lithium battery backup.
 

Baddegg

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Don't skimp on smoke alarms, think about carbon monoxide detector for gas boiler as well.
Post automatically merged:


We're posh round here now, wood cls battens, or metal frames.:cool:
Post automatically merged:

Don't like this new merging thing @Dan :)
Wood in walls!.....man that’s upper class :tearsofjoy:
 

Risteard

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If fully rewiring then wired. Radio links are designed for when disruption to the building fabric is undesirable, say if just adding smoke alarms but no other work is being done, or for awkward cable runs.

I'd use the Aico 160 series with 10 year lithium battery backup.
There's a new 3000 series now too. Worth looking at but I suppose a bit dearer.
 

Strima

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Hi, after having a somewhat bad experience with a previous sparky and having to get the work fixed I'm after some advice with regards to some additional work I'd like done. I don't want to have similar issues. I'm not an electrician, I can wire a dash-cam and that is as far as I want to go, that said, I have been reading up in the hope of educating myself to what should be done so I can avoid problems next time.

We are planning to have the house rewired (all but kitchen, as that's a job for later...), built 1960s and still have the original cables. I have been reading up on stuff, given my last bad experience and have a few questions so I can make sure the work is done correctly this time.

1. We have a few of those rubbish paramount walls, with cardboard in the middle. Should I ask for metal conduit or is the mirroring rule enough? If you're rewiring it might be worth replacing these with stud walls, however plastic conduit would suffice.

2. We would like some outside lights to be put up, standard lantern light by the front door (sensor) and one by the back door that we can switch on from the kitchen/living room. They will need to drill through the cavity etc, should they use a conduit? Reading up, some say no, some say yes? If drilling through the cavity conduit could be used but any holes should be resealed to prevent cold spots and condensation gathering in the backbox. The holes should also be drilled at a slight angle to prevent water running in with a drip loop on the cable outside if required. As a minimum all outdoor circuits should be wired in a suitable cable such as flex, standard grey twin and earth (T&E) cable has a very poor UVA rating and degrades over time.

3. New boiler arriving soon, should this now be on a separate circuit/ring, or whatever its technically called? Not necessarily, it can be fed by a fused spur from a socket circuit with a suitably rated fuse installed. Some plumbers ever stick a plug on it and plug it into the nearest outlet. However if rewiring I would consider a dedicated circuit.

4. Cables in loft, currently they are buried under insulation, attached to the rafters with metal clips. I have read that the cables get hot and lose power (OK, i know that's not the technical term) so should be laid above the insulation but some say it doesn't matter. If they are laid over the insulation, should they be in conduits to protect an idiot like me catching on them at a later date when putting junk up there. I can understand the sparky's preference to not spend hours up there attaching clips to rafters etc and just laying the cables over the insulation but is that the correct way? Lofts circuits are often just thrown in as they're out of site, any decent spark will clip the cables up to prevent accidental damage. When run under insulation we de-rate the cable as it's current carrying capacity is reduced. For example 1.0mm T&E can carry 15 amps when clipped to a wall, if run under insulation this is reduced to 11 amps. It's all to do with heat dissipation, we try and keep our cables from exceeding 70c in normal operation. This is done by putting them on a smaller circuit breaker.

5. Wired smoke alarms, really necessary? I was thinking just battery powered ones. If yes, should they be on a separate circuit or on a lighting circuit? Again, opinion seems divided. If re-wiring then hard wired mains interlinked would be worth installing, these can be powered from a lighting circuit or on their own. However battery detectors are just as good.

I know that's a lot, but just want to make sure the work is done properly this time round, so I can avoid problems.
My comments in this lovely colour above...

Engage several electricians to get quotes and get them round to have a chat, ask them questions such as what scheme are they registered with, will they do Part P notification, are their test instruments calibrated, do they have public liability and indemnity insurance etc etc.

Ideally a new distribution board with full RCBO protection for all circuits rather than a split RCD unit. You may also require surge protection depending upon a risk assessment being carried out.

Don't go for the cheapest quote and do some research on the companies you speak to, Facebook have some good local groups which give much better reviews than some of these rated trader ones.
 

Andy78

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There's a new 3000 series now too. Worth looking at but I suppose a bit dearer.
Yes. Not used those ones yet. Any idea of the differences ? I've not seen any yet.
 

multimick

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they still make paramount board ,but now faced with melamine , saw some offcuts in a skip for student accomadation:)
 

Megawatt

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Arms
I think the wired ones it is then? I read you can connect them up so the all go off? What is best, the wired versions of radio ones?
Danny in the USA the smoke alarms have to be hard wired plus all of them to wired like you said if one goes off they all go off
 

telectrix

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Rather irrelevant though to the UK.
not really irrelevant here. we have the same. detectors interlinked, either wired or radio links.
 

snowhead

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Mentor
Paramount originally came from the commercial sector used as lightweight office partitions.
The melamine covered will have done the same.

Apart from Strawmit which has conduits formed inside it, Paramount has got to be the easiest wall material to add sockets / switches without the need to chase.
 

pirate

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"
saw some offcuts in a skip for student accomadation:)"

Great idea that, using a skip for student accommodation!
 

telectrix

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"
saw some offcuts in a skip for student accomadation:)"

Great idea that, using a skip for student accommodation!
you'd need a tarpaulin over the top, else students would winge about getting their hair wet. even worse, their tan might run when it rained.
 

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