Running cable in sandstone wall

[Cbuk2k2]

I’ve got some exterior lights to install on a sandstone house, it’s quite quaint and old

Has anyone got any ideas for running cables? I don’t really want to use armour or conduit as it’s too industrial looking.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Could you not run the cables from in to outer
at the certain points.

 

[Cbuk2k2]

Could you not run the cables from in to outer
at the certain points.

I think that’s the long term solution but it requires a fair bit of chasing.

 

[Pete999]

MICC, Hi Tuff, you could try FP 200 but that's not ideal, other than that I have no other suggestions, with MICC you will need to investigate the reaction of the copper sheath with the stone make up of the wall, or use a PVC sheath covering, benefits of MICC are it's lifespan and fire resistance qualities, good luck. Oh MICC is quite expensive, sorry for got to mention.

 

[telectrix]

i've chased cables in the mortar joints before now. do precribed zones apply outside? nothing mentioning that in the regs.

 

[pc1966]

i've chased cables in the mortar joints before now. do precribed zones apply outside? nothing mentioning that in the regs.

I doubt they would apply for earth-sheathed cable like SWA, MICC, Flexishied, etc.?

But if the route is apparent from cable entering/leaving the mortar you might thing it would be OK.
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As Pete999 said if you want something that looks "period" (even though it might be centuries apart) then the bare MICC (mineral insulated copper clad) cable looks good. And if done properly will outlive everyone involved in its installation.

But expensive, and maybe a temptation for the local scroats.

 

[davesparks]

The neatest soloution will always be to have no visible cables, so install cables internally and drill through for each point.

I was always taught that raking out a mortar joint is unacceptable and only done by DIYers/bodgers. Plus, unless you repoint the whole wall, it always sticks out like a sore thumb.

If it has to be surface wiring then bare MICC may be a soloution if the budget is there, and if it doesn't react with anything and leave green streaks donw the wall. But you may also end up needing a lot of joint boxes to convert to flex to make the connection to the light fitting.

A neatly clipped black flex is likely to look OK if you plan the cable routes carefully.

Any cable which matches the colour of the wall better may not be suitable for external use.
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i've chased cables in the mortar joints before now. do precribed zones apply outside? nothing mentioning that in the regs.

The zones apply to any cable buried in a wall, there is nothing mentioning the location of the walls at all in the regs.

 

[telectrix]

The zones apply to any cable buried in a wall, there is nothing mentioning the location of the walls at all in the regs.

tht's what i'm thinking myself. if so, nothing to stop T/E being used. RCD protection would, of course, be required unless alternative compliance with 522.6 can be met.

 

[Cbuk2k2]

i've chased cables in the mortar joints before now. do precribed zones apply outside? nothing mentioning that in the regs.

Whoever put the existing lights uP has done just that. It’s a proper stone cottage so the stone work is fairly uneven.

I quite like the copper clad MICC idea you could make it look like gas pipe rather than cable which would be quite discrete.

 

[7029 dave]

IMO, if it has to be surface then MICC would be my choice, expensive as it is will look nice.

 

[Zerax]

I was always taught that raking out a mortar joint is unacceptable and only done by DIYers/bodgers highly experienced and skilled Scouse sparks.

Corrected that for you there Dave...

 

[Dustydazzler]

I’m not a big fan of chopping mortar out In an attempt to hide cables...

I would personally opt for neatly clipped surface wIring or do from the inside - out

 

[KennyKen]

Like others have stated bare MICC would be my preference. I used it a lot on churches and heritage buildings.

 

[freddo]

Another vote for bare MICC. Did some on the back of a church a while back to feed a wall light.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

MICC is usually the clear winner for discretion. Far from 'looking like a gas pipe' bare 2L1 is only 5mm in diameter and tends to disappear against many kinds of background as demonstrated in Freddo's pic. One does need to be careful with bare copper in contact with exterior masonry in case it causes verdigris staining over time, and if there is any risk of it being in contact with lime mortar then a plastic oversheath is a must as it can react quite rapidly. That increases the diameter to about 6.5mm but is more likely to be conspicuous on account of colour. Given the applications of MICC in heritage buildings, I always thought there should be a beige oversheath option that would blend with typical stonework.

 

[freddo]

The lights at the front and sides had been wired in bare micc about 15 years ago and showed no signs of corrosion/going green. Looking through my 3 MICC reference books states bare copper sheath contact with lime, concrete and cement building products is fine, as is direct burial providing the soil doesn't contain ash/cinders or urine from farm animals.

It does state though when used on old buildings that have damp porous stone to either use PVC sheathed cables or bare cables stood off of the surface to prevent salts leaching out of the stone from affecting the cable sheath. MICC orange will soon fade down to sandstone like colour...

 

[WallaceP]

I looked at using bare MICC for a job once but it looked like i would have to buy pvc and strip it off. Which is no big deal but I could not find bare copper clips for the cable. The job never got passed a rough online cost before the customer decided to go for surface galv. conduit for the industrial look she wanted.

 

[freddo]

I usually buy MICC fittings / clips etc. from Remora Electrical as they supply the full range in all colours and can supply small quantities. They also sell all manner of specialist glands and adaptors. Their SWA and SY glands are far superior to the junk found in most wholesalers.

 

[pc1966]

The Remora site is not showing it bare (oh-er missus!) but others do offer some unsheathed MICC such as:

2 Core Bare Mineral Insulated Cable (MICC)

Buy Online Bare MICC Mineral insulated cable 2L4 In cut to meter lengths as per BS EN 60702-1:2002 from Edwardes Brothers. 24 Hour UK next day

www.edwardes.co.uk

In most cases just ask around!
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Sorry, mistaken there as if you look at:

MICC Fire Survival Cable (Light Duty 500v)

Remora Mineral Insulated Cable is a copper sheathed cable, designed to safety transmit power and control signals of critical equipment. Standards: BS EN 60702-1:2002 Temperature Range: Up to 1,083°C V

www.remora.net

It says:
Sheath (optional): Coloured LSZH polymer
Colour: Bare Copper, Black, Orange, Red, White
So again, just ask!