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jord35davies

Hi guys,

just looking for a bit of advice really. I'm nearly due my approved status as a spark but the path I want to go down now is the SAP route but I'm a bit unsure of how to get there and the quals you need.
I've been working on offshore wind for the past 2years and it seems the ideal path to go down now.

can anyone tell me the courses/experience you need and a little of what's involved.

Thanks for your time

jordan
 
There’s a major difference between an approved electrician with the likes of the JIB to being an AP for MV work.

The usual rout is on site work with a company AP carrying out switching procedures. You then need to be company sponsored to undergo further training in MV system control and management to become an AP. I did my first AP ticket with the local DNO sponsored by the company. Before that I did MV cable jointing, again with the DNO and sponsored by the company.

SAP is waiting for “dead mens shoes.” A company with a MV network will have an SAP who knows the distribution system. You won’t walk in to a job as SAP without practical experience on “their” system as legally “your it!”

I’ll tell you now, it’s a long road and you take on a lot of responsibilities on top of your day to day job.

I started working with MV gear as an apprentice, what experience of MV work have you got to date?
 
As a former AP/HV/LV I agree with Tony's take on the subject of SAP, I was a SAP for the DOE a while back which only meant I was in charge overall of our operating system, we had an Authorising Engineer, who was in charge of all the SAPs, and at the time there were courses for AEs, but these courses were delivered at RAF Cardington, sadly closed now.
 
As a former AP/HV/LV I agree with Tony's take on the subject of SAP, I was a SAP for the DOE a while back which only meant I was in charge overall of our operating system, we had an Authorising Engineer, who was in charge of all the SAPs, and at the time there were courses for AEs, but these courses were delivered at RAF Cardington, sadly closed now.

I can only remember there being two official categories AP / Approved Person and CP / Certified Person.
Anyone above Approved person was known as an Area Manager, that was obviously also certified as an Approved Person. Is this what is being called a SPA here??
 
I have only heard of

A.E -authorising engineer
A.P- authorised persons
C.P- competent person
Ac.P- accompanying persons

I believe on large sites however you may need to assign a lead/senior authorising persons.

Different sections of the industry will probably define the different roles to suit.

Is this the same type of role the op is looking to achieve.
 
Thanks for your replies guys,

yep I understand the process to get to sap level will be a long one. It's a path I am willing to work to through a number of years and ideally end up toward the end of my career.

As for HV experience, it's very little. I have mostly been working with lv installations. I have a little experience terminating HV but nothing to brag about.

My plan(if possible) was to complete a hands on HV course giving in depth training of various switching components upto 33kv. Then complete an AP course dealing with regs and documentation etc.
i was then going to look for a company to take me on as a trainee AP.

From what little I understand of HV, I don't think you need to be sponsored any more. I've come across a few self employed SAPS in my line of work on offshore wind and they pay for all their courses themselves.

It it just seems the likely path for me within the wind industry.
Appreciate your feed back guys thank you
 
Thanks for your replies guys,

yep I understand the process to get to sap level will be a long one. It's a path I am willing to work to through a number of years and ideally end up toward the end of my career.

As for HV experience, it's very little. I have mostly been working with lv installations. I have a little experience terminating HV but nothing to brag about.

My plan(if possible) was to complete a hands on HV course giving in depth training of various switching components upto 33kv. Then complete an AP course dealing with regs and documentation etc.
i was then going to look for a company to take me on as a trainee AP.

From what little I understand of HV, I don't think you need to be sponsored any more. I've come across a few self employed SAPS in my line of work on offshore wind and they pay for all their courses themselves.

It it just seems the likely path for me within the wind industry.
Appreciate your feed back guys thank you

As an AP your duties would be that of ensuring safe working issuing permits to work P toW, documentation, ensuring any MIMIC diagrams are kept updated, Keeping records of any Permits issued and ensuring all keys are kept in an AP key box.
You would not be involved in physically jointing cables, as I said earlier safe working would be your keyword.
 
I’m sorry to say but you’re in La La Land.

A “hands on in depth course” is called an apprenticeship. It took me 15 years before becoming an AP.

It’s not just about knowing how to operate a switch, you have to understand the “knock on” effects of what you do.
 
As tony rightly pointed out. It takes years to become even an AP.

There is a C&G course on HV switching, I can't remember the number. It will not instantly make you an AP but it would be a start. It's a bit like the 17th edition qual in regards it's an add on to existing experience.

its not open book though, it's a 4hour closed book theory exam which if you pass then a 4hour practical.
 
Ye thanks guys and as I said I'm willing to WORK towards it. If it takes me years it takes me years. I'm not looking for a quick course and I'm in the back door. Didn't mean to offend. That's why I was asking 'if possible'.

I was just on here to seek your advice and ask you where to start at. Cheers tony ****ing lala land might be the case but I'm willing to try and get somewhere and I thought here might be a good start.

Thanks for your time.
 
From what little I understand of HV, I don't think you need to be sponsored any more. I've come across a few self employed SAPS in my line of work on offshore wind and they pay for all their courses themselves.

Have you any idea just how much the courses are leading to AP approval??

Self employed SAP's, ...that's got to be a new one, i hope they carry 10's of millions in liability insurance!!
 
So chaps after saying I.m living in lala land, can you tell me what an AP does, how do you do an AP apprenticeship? The C&G course you talk of how long is that course, because the course I took was 6 weeks straight off, continually assessed with a written exam every week.
With a final practical switching operation, where you were given a scenario on a fully working 11KV ring, on a hypothetical Military base which I have to say has its own difficulties of what and how to keep operational.
 
Pete, I think you'll find tony was referring to me. not you.

As usual, everybody on this site shoots well and truly over the top.

i was asking for advice and basic info on a possible future career path. I'm sorry I bothered now.
 
Pete, I think you'll find tony was referring to me. not you.

As usual, everybody on this site shoots well and truly over the top.

i was asking for advice and basic info on a possible future career path. I'm sorry I bothered now.

Thanks, in that case apologies to all if I offended anyone
 
So chaps after saying I.m living in lala land, can you tell me what an AP does, how do you do an AP apprenticeship? The C&G course you talk of how long is that course, because the course I took was 6 weeks straight off, continually assessed with a written exam every week.
With a final practical switching operation, where you were given a scenario on a fully working 11KV ring, on a hypothetical Military base which I have to say has its own difficulties of what and how to keep operational.

I wasn’t referring to you.

The course is hard work and I dread to think what it costs, which is why I said to the OP he needs a company to sponsor him.

Somewhere I’ve a scan of the EMEB system we did the training on. Compared to our works system at the time it was simple.
Ever come across a spider web? It’s a swine of a system to get your head around. Cross interconnects everywhere make it reliable but not easy to manage. That system had 3 incomers, 19 substations and 3 switching stations. Because of its complexity the company needed the AP’s to know the setup.

Other companies I’ve been at the standard set up was two feeders per sub fed from the primary 33/11KV intake.
Not a lot to go wrong until some muppet parallel the local UKPN 132KV feeders though a 433V switch. It wasn’t me but I got there to see the ensuing chaos. I thought it was hilarious, the data centre he blacked out didn’t see the funny side.

As E54 has said, a freelance would need tens of millions in indemnity insurance. Added to which they can’t be a freelance SAP, it’s a company appointment.
 
I wasn’t referring to you.

The course is hard work and I dread to think what it costs, which is why I said to the OP he needs a company to sponsor him.

Somewhere I’ve a scan of the EMEB system we did the training on. Compared to our works system at the time it was simple.
Ever come across a spider web? It’s a swine of a system to get your head around. Cross interconnects everywhere make it reliable but not easy to manage. That system had 19 substations and 3 switching stations. Because of its complexity the company needed the AP’s to know the setup.

Other companies I’ve been at the standard set up was two feeders per sub fed from the primary 33/11KV intake.
Not a lot to go wrong until some muppet parallel the local UKPN 132KV feeders though a 433V switch. It wasn’t me but I got there to see the ensuing chaos. I thought it was hilarious, the data centre he blacked out didn’t see the funny side.

As E54 has said, a freelance would need tens of millions in indemnity insurance. Added to which they can’t be a freelance SAP, it’s a company appointment.

Cleared up already Tony, no problems here, sorry for the inference
 
The OP had better have deep pockets if he’s going to pay himself. Added to which there’s no guarantee he’ll walk in to a job afterward.
 

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