Discuss Service fuse and isolator installation in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

M

MrJames

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Hello everyone I'm new here and looking for a little advice...

What I'm looking at doing is replacing both our CU's at some point but for now I just need to replace the small secondary one
I called the DNO earlier and they've told me the only way they'll come out and remove the service fuse is in an emergency otherwise it's just an
electrician to remove it and they'll re-seal it on next meter reading.

So going on that I'll yank it myself.... CU's will be off insulated gloves and goggles will be worn and next door neighbour will do it for me if I wimp out lol!
There isn't anything nasty to watch for on these fuse carriers is there?

Here is the current setup....

20120807145936.jpg

Ideally I'd like to isolate both CU's separately as the secondary one feeds an outside workshop and will have a few sockets under the stairs for servers.

My plan is to isolate after the henley block, problem I'm is finding it hard to find a single pole isolator so unless someone has some suggestions should I just use a 2 pole one for each CU?

Many thanks in advance for advice or help :cyclist:
 
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P

Plonker 3

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  • #2
What I'm looking at doing is replacing both our CU's at some point but for now I just need to replace the small secondary one
I called the DNO earlier and they've told me the only way they'll come out and remove the service fuse is in an emergency otherwise it's just an
electrician to remove it and they'll re-seal it on next meter reading.


So going on that I'll yank it myself.... CU's will be off insulated gloves and goggles will be worn and next door neighbour will do it for me if I wimp out lol!
Well I don't know who your DNO is but it is illegal to cut the seals on any DNO equipment without prior authorization or in a emergency (DB on fire, unable to isolate elctric elsewhere safely etc).
 
"There isn't anything nasty to watch for on these fuse carriers is there?"
Possibly asbestos, you should not use a single pole isolator. This is really not a job for the uninitiated mate, think very carefully whether you want to go ahead with it. Do you have access to and know how to use calibrated test equipment?
 
S

Silly Sausage

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  • #4
For isolation you need to disconnect all 'Live' conductors, in this case, both Line & Neutral.
So you need DP isolators.
 
It's also notifiable works under Part P of the building regs depending on whereabouts you are in the country
 
M

MrJames

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Well I don't know who your DNO is but it is illegal to cut the seals on any DNO equipment without prior authorization or in a emergency (DB on fire, unable to isolate elctric elsewhere safely etc).
DNO is Southern Electric I called them earlier to ask them about coming and fitting an isolator and they told me directly what I've said in my first post they only come and remove the service fuse in an emergency :lipsrsealed2:

What would they have used asbestos in for the the fuse carrier?

And yes I realise I shouldn't use a single pole was trying to avoid touching anything before the meter but just clicked the secondary CU neutral is fed directly from the service head so would get away with isolating the neutral....

I wouldn't be touching the main CU will get someone in to change that for a newer one just the secondary one I'll be attacking but thought I'd get the isolators in now to make it easier later on if it's anything to go by my neighbour offered to change the secondary CU while live lol.
 
S

SW1970

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Hello MrJames and welcome. It's very dangerous pulling the fuse even as a fully qualified electrical engineer. That's why most visiting DNO engineers will wear some form of arc flash protection gear. I'm very interested to know, what is the DNO telephone number that you dialled in which you were given the advice that an electrician could pull the fuse? Your OP suggests a change of policy so we'd all be very interested to hear.

- - - Updated - - -

Posting overlap. But what was the telephone number?
 
P

Plonker 3

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
I believe you have to contact your supplier (British gas, npower etc) to fit the isolator, I recently enquired about this for a customer and that is what I found.
 
DNO is Southern Electric

What would they have used asbestos in for the the fuse carrier?

And yes I realise I shouldn't use a single pole

I wouldn't be touching the main CU

offered to change the secondary CU while live lol.
Southern Electric must have softened their stance somewhat, usually they go by the usual DNO mantra "Do Not Touch Our Equipment.
"They" wouldn't have used asbestos in the fuse carrier it may have been manufactured with it installed.
I'm confused, Why mention a single pole isolator knowing you need a double pole?
Changing either CU is notifiable Mr James.
Never ever work live when there is no reason to.
I suspect that someone at the DNO has, out of ignorance/stupidity given you incorrect information. They normally take a dim view of anyone, even a qualified electrician playing with their toys so they're likely to take an even dimmer view of an enthusiastic amateur.
As I said before, this is not a job for the uninitiated.
 
M

MrJames

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Ahhhh for some reason what I wanted to write contains forbidden words and I'm limited on URL's it may contain..... not helpful when I can't see it containing either!
 
P

Ponty Massive

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  • #11
Hello everyone I'm new here and looking for a little advice...

I called the DNO earlier and they've told me the only way they'll come out and remove the service fuse is in an emergency otherwise it's just an
electrician to remove it
JUST an electrician....tut tut..!!!!
 
S

SW1970

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
Still waiting for the phone number...
 

Richard Burns

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Southern Electric is part of the SSE group and they have a specific procedure for properties within the Southern Electric distribution area to allow qualified and approved electricians to advise them in advance that they are going to remove the service cut out fuse and reseal with labels supplied by them.

It is not that they will allow any electrician to remove the cut out fuse only that specific electricians may be authorised to do this in accordance with their procedure.
If you were to remove the cut out fuse this would be considered illegal by Southern Energy.
It can also be highly dangerous, I cannot recommend that you try this approach.
 
M

MrJames

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Hmmm still not letting me post the numbers guess I need to hit 6 posts first? Maybe the easier option to all this for now is to use the old cooker feed that was for the old electric cooker..... I just want some plug sockets under the stairs surely it can't be this hard?
 
Hmmm still not letting me post the numbers guess I need to hit 6 posts first? Maybe the easier option to all this for now is to use the old cooker feed that was for the old electric cooker..... I just want some plug sockets under the stairs surely it can't be this hard?
Smells like a wind up now.
Ok Mr James, "It can't be this hard"
Why do you think it takes a long apprtenticeship to become a qualified electrician?
What do you know of safe isolation procedures?
What do you know of maximum demand and diversity?
What do you know of cable selection methods and derating factors?
Initial verification inspection and testing?
Certification and notification?
That's just a few to be going on with.
 

Amp David

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Mentor
Arms
Again, from my experience our DNO couldn't give a ---- if you cut and pull the main fuse in order to complete electrical work.
 
P

Plonker 3

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Again, from my experience our DNO couldn't give a ---- if you cut and pull the main fuse in order to complete electrical work.
That's my experience too, but I would never tell someone else it is OK or safe to do so.
 
M

MrJames

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
When I said it can't be this hard I was referring to getting someone to agree it's their responsibility to remove the service fuse which seems to be rather difficult.... and timing consuming at the moment.

All I'm really after at the moment is 2 dual sockets under the stairs as the old cooker circuit was a large 30amp one and now only has the cooker's pilot and 2 sockets on it there shouldn't really be an issue using it should there?
 

snowhead

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Mentor
I see the meter fixer that changed this meter has adopted a near foolproof way of leaving the installation with correct polarity.
 
O

Octopus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Dare I suggest you get a competent, registered electrician is as this is Part P notifiable work??
 
M

MrJames

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Dare I suggest you get a competent, registered electrician is as this is Part P notifiable work??
I called a couple of electricians earlier and both were unsure over pulling the service fuse might try calling southern electric tomorrow and try talk them into installing an isolator.... Think I saw smoke coming from the meter it's an emergency think you should install an isolator in case it happens again or something goes wrong :p
 

Strima

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Arms
Esteemed
Don't bother claiming there's a fault with the meter, you could end up with a hefty call out bill. Just get them to fit an Isolator then any future upgrades can easily be done without touching the suppliers equipment, it shouldn't cost too much.
 
M

MrJames

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
I just called them again and got given yet another number to call for an office that is currently closed try get them them to fit one :(

At this rate I'll have an entire collection of southern electric contact numbers :bomb:
 

baldelectrician

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
SSE do let registered electrical contractors cut seals, and provide them with tempoary sealsfor this purpose

They do not let people cut seals willy nilly

I would respectfully point out that if you are having to ask such questions on an open forum you should leave this task to somoeone more qaulified.

Remeber this fuse before the cut out will be at the substation and could be from 300A to 500A. This is something you should not be touching under any circumstances
 
M

MrJames

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
It's ok don't worry I get the message that I shouldn't be pulling the fuse myself...

I spoke to my neighbour and he's happy to pull it for me providing there aren't any seals present. Or as I said earlier failing that he'll remove the tails while live and into an isolator
I trust his judgement he's removed them before plus he deals with much bigger for his work :)
 
K

Knobhead

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
Pity you didn’t pester your neighbour first before bothering others with your Jackanory stories.
 
M

MrJames

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
Pity you didn’t pester your neighbour first before bothering others with your Jackanory stories.
Thank you for your constructive post you can now go back to what ever you were doing.... Hopefully not asking for advice on other forums for things you aren't sure about.
 
Lets hope whoever does do this job has a better knowledge of where cables go from the meter. look where the neutral comes from to the cu.
spot the mistake ?
 
M

MrJames

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #32
I'm guessing you're talking about the second CU? And the fact the neutral comes directly from the service head? Rather than going through the meter?
 
K

Knobhead

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
Only needs one neutral to the meter for the voltage measurment. Current measurement is done on the live so it's OK.
 

Marvo

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Mentor
Arms
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I think the sentiment is unanimous, you shouldn't be pulling the fuse and performing notifiable work without being a competent person and having the correct test equipment.

It's ok don't worry I get the message that I shouldn't be pulling the fuse myself...
 

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