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Discuss Should Scotland be allowed another referendum and do you think parliament has a right to deny it? in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net

Should Scotland be allowed to take another referendum because of Brexit as is the SNP's claim?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 50.0%
  • No

    Votes: 6 50.0%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12

Baddegg

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I have to ask @baldelectrician, do the majority of Scots actually believe that education, NHS, welfare etc is better in the uk?......you’ve written a few times about how Westminster has cut things in Scotland....it’s no different down here I assure you
 
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R-fur

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Baddeg, I travel the UK working on substation contracts, so I have a fair idea of how things are. My perception is that when powers are devolved to Scotland we tend to manage things better than when it is done by Westminster. The issue is when power is not devolved but the budget is cut. I would like to see England getting its own Parliament and Westminster being abolished, each country could then look after its own affairs as it sees fit, but still work in cooperation with the other UK countries by agreement.
 

baldelectrician

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I have to ask @baldelectrician, do the majority of Scots actually believe that education, NHS, welfare etc is better in the uk?......you’ve written a few times about how Westminster has cut things in Scotland....it’s no different down here I assure you
Thats my point in wishing for independence

Austerity was a political choice not a requirement, this was imposed on all parts of the UK by Westminster

The NHS is less worse than that of the UK- look at the exposed scandals in maternity services over the last few weeks, the Panorama documentaries on adult social care that got a place closed down (still no progress 2 years later) and A&E waiting times down south
The Scottish health minister is asked to consider her position on a BBC Scotland interview but the UK health secretary is not put under such pressure.

As far as schools go they are on the right track again (literacy is up, the other 2 indicators are stable but expected to improve), compare that to down south where some schools are on a 4.5 day week and are doing fund raisers for basics such as books, pencils etc

With the limited welfare powers (Scotland has 15% of the welfare powers) Scotland is no longer in the top 10 poorest areas of Europe, this is a marked change in the last few years- mainly due to welfare policies and austerity.





A graphic to demonstrate powers currently vs powers if Scotland went in to the EU - remember the EU don't refuse people referendums only the UK do that so if Scotland decided to leave the EU once in we could.


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Here's another littly ditty from the archives (STV debate with former Scottish Secretary - Lib Dem A Charmichael).
The First Minister brings up the possibility of Scotland being taken out of the EU against her will and is accused of 'scaremongering'

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Here's a more up to date graphic on powers post EU exit
 
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the pict

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Would another vote solve the issue most likely not, say the independence vote won then that would make it 1 a piece, say remain won again then as we have now the SNP would continue to rally for another referendum, it was suppose to be a once in a lifetime vote and they have already had it.
EM Who said once in a lifetime this is propaganda that the tories invented
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Purely hypothetical and in no way my personal opinion (I want the uk to stay as is) but how would the welsh Scottish and NI members feel if the English decided to have a referendum on going it alone?...
They are going it alone the westminster mafia do as they please regardless of opinion ,
 

DPG

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EM Who said once in a lifetime this is propaganda that the tories invented
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They are going it alone the westminster mafia do as they please regardless of opinion ,
Did Nicola Sturgeon not say that then?
 

the pict

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Did Nicola Sturgeon not say that then?
No but every tories says it at every opportunity tell a lie often enough, but anyway is it a valid reason or argument the populace decide what is relevant not a few well heeled tories , who have never once outlined exactly why they are opposed to Scottish independence however we who are in favour know why
 

DPG

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No but every tories says it at every opportunity tell a lie often enough, but anyway is it a valid reason or argument the populace decide what is relevant not a few well heeled tories , who have never once outlined exactly why they are opposed to Scottish independence however we who are in favour know why
I thought I'd seen her saying that, but I must be mistaken then.
 

the pict

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I thought I'd seen her saying that, but I must be mistaken then.
I has been trotted out i various formats, once in a lifetime or once in a generation but the naysayers cannot agree on it, no wonder they made balls of HS2 they cant agree on where its going either
 

baldelectrician

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I thought I'd seen her saying that, but I must be mistaken then.
Politicians say lots (die in a ditch, leave by 31st March) and things change

The fact remains the previous agreement (Edinburgh Agreement) did not give any generation ideas

The UK government has already agreed to the length of a generation - it is 7 years in the Good Friday Agreement, that's OK for me as well.

the problem the UK government have is they keep changing the goals for a Scottish Referendum
Previously it was over 50% of MP's in Scotland being SNP (no longer)
Then it was a majority of MSP's in the Scottish Parliament (mind changed there as well)
Then it was a majority of the Scottish Parliament votes had to be pro indy (been there as well)

How about a mandate in a General election - been there 2 times now

The real answer- what ever they can make up to stop it happening (and it is helping change minds)



So it's a 2021 referendum then on independence :D
 

baldelectrician

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Was at the Glasgow AUOB Independence march on Saturday

The weather was pants but the turn out was still around 80,000

Short time lapse of the Edinburgh one from October - note there was no coverage on UK broadcast media (yet they show a demo of 200 on London bridge)
Will look for the recent one and post as well.

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Found the one from this weekend -bottom and one from last year (better weather)


I'm sure you will have seen the wall to wall coverage on Sky, BBC etc .....



While we are at it this is good with a twist.

Watch to the end.

 
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baldelectrician

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Here's another video

This actually shows (in a video less than 20 seconds) the way the UK media and Westminster actually selectively quote the once in a generation line

 

DPG

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Here's another video

This actually shows (in a video less than 20 seconds) the way the UK media and Westminster actually selectively quote the once in a generation line

Alex Salmond - oh dear.
 
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