Discuss Should Scotland be allowed another referendum and do you think parliament has a right to deny it? in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net

Should Scotland be allowed to take another referendum because of Brexit as is the SNP's claim?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • No

    Votes: 8 50.0%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 1 6.3%

  • Total voters
    16
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Darkwood

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This is a follow on thread from one created discussing Labours manifesto, as this discussion on Scotland started taking hold of the thread it became a topic with popular response that it needs its own discussion.

Unfortunately the replies and content already posted would be difficult to bring across with damaging the continuity of the existing thread and also making some confusing context here.

Also added a poll just to give an overview of members although this poll should be taken with a pinch of salt as the majority of members will not be or reflect the views of our Scottish friends but is simply based on members thoughts and not national thought.
 
Would another vote solve the issue most likely not, say the independence vote won then that would make it 1 a piece, say remain won again then as we have now the SNP would continue to rally for another referendum, it was suppose to be a once in a lifetime vote and they have already had it.
 
What a rude and patronising title for the thread, Should Scotland be allowed!!! Its up to Scotland to decide what its future should be. It is this condescending attitude that fuels the independence movement,
 
Purely hypothetical and in no way my personal opinion (I want the uk to stay as is) but how would the welsh Scottish and NI members feel if the English decided to have a referendum on going it alone?...
 
I wondered that, and I know someone gave an answer in that ‘other thread’. ‘It’s rather strange.

Why can’t we all just get on. After us Sassenachs won the war. It was the Jacobites fault, that they didn’t come back for the second half. :)
 
I used to wind my Scottish mates up, by saying if they mate sturgeon (they hate her as much as anyone) really wanted to leave she’d ask the English to vote on it ?
 
Stugeon isnt hated that much by the Scots. The Nats have been in power for twelve years and look at their result in last months election, The galling thing is that we have another Tory government when Scotland hasn't voted Tory since the fifty's.
 
As I've said before, I know a few Scots and most are in favour of staying in the UK. Only one isn't.

The last 'once in a lifetime referendum' didn't get the result the SNP wanted, but if they want another then I say go for it. I reckon it would still end up being the same result, but that's only my opinion.

Also, I hope we do stay as a united kingdom with Scotland in it personally.
 
Stugeon isnt hated that much by the Scots. The Nats have been in power for twelve years and look at their result in last months election, The galling thing is that we have another Tory government when Scotland hasn't voted Tory since the fifty's.
Thats the rub then. Perhaps that’s why all the other countries have their own devolved parliament, unlike England.

It could be worse for you, the majority government could of been led by Labour, Lib Dem’s or coalition government with the Greens.

My local council is mostly Tory, but now & again there’s Labour or the like. Kinda think that keeps us honest.
 
I think you need to live in Scotland to get a sense of the injustice of the way things are. Some of the most vocal Yes supporters I know are English, even my SNP MP isnt Scottish.
 
The once in a lifetime is an opinion (just like dying in a ditch)
This is regularly trotted out in the media but nobody has once ever asked any politician spouting this to point to a document agreed by Westminster and the SNP Government.

As I read elsewhere- journalism school rule 101 - "If a politician tells you it is raining and another tells you it is sunny your job is to look outside and see what is happening, not just report on what was said"
Unfortunately the main stream media have became subservient to many politicians and blandly report press releases without fact checking, cuts in news budgets have not helped but most still have access to the internet.

The facts are the Westminster Government has already agreed to the last referendum held in 2014, which had conditions in it such as it had to be held before the UK general election in 2015 and there could only be 2 questions (devolution max was ruled out as most Scots would have voted for it)

If devo max (Scotland getting ALL powers and taxes except defence and foreign affairs) had happened then we would be 90% on the road to independence with ALL the figures to hand accurately detailing how much Scotland spend and had in income

Add to that the Devolution trap- cuts by Westminster hurt Scotland and our schools, NHS etc but the unionist parties blame the SNP (win-win for them)

More detail on that here
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Here's a video from the BBC letting slip how much Scotland is worth to the UK economy

 
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I have to ask @baldelectrician, do the majority of Scots actually believe that education, NHS, welfare etc is better in the uk?......you’ve written a few times about how Westminster has cut things in Scotland....it’s no different down here I assure you
 
Baddeg, I travel the UK working on substation contracts, so I have a fair idea of how things are. My perception is that when powers are devolved to Scotland we tend to manage things better than when it is done by Westminster. The issue is when power is not devolved but the budget is cut. I would like to see England getting its own Parliament and Westminster being abolished, each country could then look after its own affairs as it sees fit, but still work in cooperation with the other UK countries by agreement.
 
What's everyone’s opinion on the Labour manifesto for the last general election?
 
I have to ask @baldelectrician, do the majority of Scots actually believe that education, NHS, welfare etc is better in the uk?......you’ve written a few times about how Westminster has cut things in Scotland....it’s no different down here I assure you

Thats my point in wishing for independence

Austerity was a political choice not a requirement, this was imposed on all parts of the UK by Westminster

The NHS is less worse than that of the UK- look at the exposed scandals in maternity services over the last few weeks, the Panorama documentaries on adult social care that got a place closed down (still no progress 2 years later) and A&E waiting times down south
The Scottish health minister is asked to consider her position on a BBC Scotland interview but the UK health secretary is not put under such pressure.

As far as schools go they are on the right track again (literacy is up, the other 2 indicators are stable but expected to improve), compare that to down south where some schools are on a 4.5 day week and are doing fund raisers for basics such as books, pencils etc

With the limited welfare powers (Scotland has 15% of the welfare powers) Scotland is no longer in the top 10 poorest areas of Europe, this is a marked change in the last few years- mainly due to welfare policies and austerity.

Should Scotland be allowed another referendum and do you think parliament has a right to deny it? {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net




A graphic to demonstrate powers currently vs powers if Scotland went in to the EU - remember the EU don't refuse people referendums only the UK do that so if Scotland decided to leave the EU once in we could.

Should Scotland be allowed another referendum and do you think parliament has a right to deny it? {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net

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Here's another littly ditty from the archives (STV debate with former Scottish Secretary - Lib Dem A Charmichael).
The First Minister brings up the possibility of Scotland being taken out of the EU against her will and is accused of 'scaremongering'

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Here's a more up to date graphic on powers post EU exit
Should Scotland be allowed another referendum and do you think parliament has a right to deny it? {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net
 
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