Should Scottish Government delay new smoke detector law

[baldelectrician]

Was contacted by a local paper last week and asked about the Scottish Government smoke alarm requirements coming in on February.

Was mentioned in an article (and even had my good looks used to enhance sales ), although they spelled my name wrong (Stewart McLintock)

See below

 

[pc1966]

While I think that proper alarms are a good thing and should eventually be a regulation, this move has been poorly thought through and no provision I know of to support those unable to afford a professional system but unable to manage a DIY.

The weaselly worded cost estimate (based on cheaper alarms and DIY install) is misleading the public about its impact, as is the gov claims it won't be enforced, etc, but maybe insurance will start using it to deny payments, etc. Also the claims it is base on / to avoid another Grenfell Tower tragedy, even though that class of building and the serious aspect of inflammable cladding (still a WTF? for building standards) is utterly different to the vast majority of properties this applies to.

TL;DR Not thought through, should have been based on some aspect where it is managed as part of larger work anyway for non-rental property (e.g. on property sale or rewire job so managed over many years until feasible to force remainder to be upgraded)

 

[baldelectrician]

While I think that proper alarms are a good thing and should eventually be a regulation, this move has been poorly thought through and no provision I know of to support those unable to afford a professional system but unable to manage a DIY.

The weaselly worded cost estimate (based on cheaper alarms and DIY install) is misleading the public about its impact, as is the gov claims it won't be enforced, etc, but maybe insurance will start using it to deny payments, etc. Also the claims it is base on / to avoid another Grenfell Tower tragedy, even though that class of building and the serious aspect of inflammable cladding (still a WTF? for building standards) is utterly different to the vast majority of properties this applies to.

TL;DR Not thought through, should have been based on some aspect where it is managed as part of larger work anyway for non-rental property (e.g. on property sale or rewire job so managed over many years until feasible to force remainder to be upgraded)

The Scottish Building Standards have banned the cladding used in Grenfel for dwellings above 2 floors (unless that cladding is encased in 75mm of concrete), this was changed in 2007 - well before the disaster

 

[littlespark]

I can’t see why people say there wasn’t enough advertising about the new legislation.
I’ve seen tv adverts, newspaper, website ads, and AICO sent every home in Scotland a flyer, twice I think.

The only thing I would have an issue with is having to replace alarms that are still in date. You could have one with the replaceable battery, that’s only 3 to 4 year old. It’s powered, the occupants are sensible enough to replace the battery when needed and they’re interlinked.

Never come across it… most of the ones I change are hitting 20 or more years.

 

[baldelectrician]

The article is now online


Sunday Mail smoke alarm atricle

Scots have just days to install new fire alarms or risk insurance policies

Controversial legislation coming into force on February 1 requires every property to have an “interlinked” system costing up to £400.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

 

[Julie.]

For me there are a number of aspects, some I agree with and some I do not.

In terms of timescale, we the public have known about this since a few days following Grenfell , the Scottish government made a big deal about enacting legislation making smoke detection in all properties immediately after the fire. This is close to 5 years ago now.
So have the public had sufficient notice - absolutely!! (Do the public realise the sound-bites made by their politicians actually may impact them - certainly not!)

As for cost and impact - total lies by the government who want to make the sound-bite but not suffer the consequence - it isn't even realistic; in practice the vast majority of poorer homes will have old gas or coal fires extracting via old chimneys - so a CO in both downstairs rooms plus the bedrooms above plus the smokes etc so not only are the quantities totally wrong, the actual individual cost is unrealistic as few would be able to do it correctly.

And as for enforcement, why introduce a law that you intend to ignore??
Are we the public to decide which laws are real, and which are pretend - you know those laws just to enable sound-bites??

Locally we have 20mph limits introduced - are these to be ignored as well?

If any law is introduced
1) costs should be supported for the needy
2) it should be fully enforced
3) if the above 2 requirements are not met, it shouldn't be introduced as it isn't intended for the right reasons, but for political gain.

Unfortunately the law was introduced, solely for the sound-bite

 

[Julie.]

Was mentioned in an article (and even had my good looks used to enhance sales ), although they spelled my name wrong (Stewart McLintock)

See below

View attachment 94014

Now we have famous people on the forum....

 

[pc1966]

Now we have famous people on the forum....

I was thinking we just had infamous people

 

[pc1966]

And as for enforcement, why introduce a law that you intend to ignore??
Are we the public to decide which laws are real, and which are pretend - you know those laws just to enable sound-bites??

The apparent lack of public engagement might well be down to this. Why take any notice of a law the government itself says it won't enforce?

One aspect that bothers me is the sound-bite "we must be seeing to do something" aspect of such a move.

The other is the worrying aspect of such non-enforced laws that they will only be enforce when it suits someone to prosecute for other reasons, which could well be political or petty personal grievances with a councillor, etc.

 

[littlespark]

We had the 20mph introduced in Scottish Borders a year ago…
“Every town, village and built up area”

Took the council weeks to change the signage from 30 to 20, and 40 to 30 in some places.

Then, 6 months later… they decided some small places didn’t deserve the 20, and reverted them back to 30…. Using brand new signs!
Where was all the old ones?


Famous people on the forum?
That’s Baldy and Lucian both had coverage…

Although I have been in my local for fitting a defribulater for nowt… just don’t talk about it.

 

[buzzlightyear]

and even had my good looks used to enhance sales

i bet every man in uk is think that ,most men in uk was hit with ugly stick when that where born , playboy might be knocking on your door soon wait hold that thought .

 

[Julie.]

We had the 20mph introduced in Scottish Borders a year ago…
“Every town, village and built up area”

Took the council weeks to change the signage from 30 to 20, and 40 to 30 in some places.

Then, 6 months later… they decided some small places didn’t deserve the 20, and reverted them back to 30…. Using brand new signs!
Where was all the old ones?

The old ones are still up in some places near us.

Approach a road from one direction and it's a 30, Approach from almost all other directions and it's 20!

Then the side roads still have the reduction to 20 from this main (now already 20) road!

It's no wonder people get frustrated, so many miss the 20 sign, then all the indications are it's a 30 as standard and get annoyed at people "only doing 20 in a 30"

 

[pc1966]

Famous people on the forum?
That’s Baldy and Lucian both had coverage…

Although I have been in my local for fitting a defribulater for nowt… just don’t talk about it.

I featured in the Dundee Courier last week, though thankfully not in any article mentioning sheep & worrying in the same phrase.

 

[Julie.]

I featured in the Dundee Courier last week, though thankfully not in any article mentioning sheep & worrying in the same phrase.

Got away with it then...

 

[pc1966]

Got away with it then...

Yes, quite adept at hiding the jar of mint sauce flavoured lubricant these days.

 

[baldelectrician]

i bet every man in uk is think that ,most men in uk was hit with ugly stick when that where born , playboy might be knocking on your door soon wait hold that thought .

I have been told I have a face for radio

 

[Julie.]

I have been told I have a face for radio

Dangerous thing to say on this forum, where everyone has now seen your face!!

Although I would neither confirm nor reject your assertion...

 

[pc1966]

most men in uk was hit with ugly stick when that where born

In my case I fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

 

[pirate]

Interesting to see this thread raising some valuable points.
I won't repeat what has been said before, but i can confirm that I have received multiple requests for quotes to do installations to the new Scottish regs and the last 3 have all been driven by the clients concern over possible problems with insurance claims...rather than just keeping them safe.

My 2 most recent are in flats nearby, which are either 2 or 3 bed, and basically all these flats need the same minimum of a heat and 2 smokes, there being no gas installed and no other fuel-burning appliance. Of course, when installed, the 3 detectors are within 3 metres of each other, and in some cases you can actually see them all!

The residents are all reasonably well-to-do and savvy, and while a raised eyebrow is usual, the basic cost of £255 for Aico units is not an issue. This excludes fitting and commissioning and issuing a certificate, obviously. It's above the much touted figure the Scottish Government have postulated, and the latest 3 bed house i quoted for is coming in at £400 to match the minimum standard. I suggested extras, which I personally would have, but to no avail.

As word spreads throughout this local flatted development I am expecting many more enquiries, and of course they will all expect the same cost.

Thus, I learn now that my usual supplier, Safelincs, now offer these:

Radio-Interlinked Sealed Battery 3 Smoke Alarms and 1 Heat Alarm Kit - Hispec RF Pro Range - £107.39 inc VAT

Buy the radio interlinked sealed battery 3 smoke alarms and 1 heat alarm kit from the Hispec RF Pro Range. 5 year warranty and express delivery.

www.safelincs.co.uk

Anyone used them?
I have painted myself into a corner with Aico, as these HiSpec are much cheaper.
If I spec these cheaper ones, my previous clients might be a tad miffed...

On the other hand, I've never had a call back to an Aico unit. Thus, just wondering if any of you have any experience of the HiSpec units. I see availability is far from instant.

My gut reaction is to continue to spec Aico, but give the client the option to choose the cheaper units, and I'll fit them as usual.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[littlespark]

I’ve seen those hispec, and I tell customers they are new to market, I don’t have any idea on how reliable they are.

Aico have been around for years, and many of the ones I’m upgrading are already Aico.
And I’m listed as an Aico installer…. So I won’t be changing.

Have already been turned down a couple of times as being too expensive.