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K

KevinS

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Had my NICEIC assessment today, all went well.
We got onto the subject of functional switching and they agreed that a switch for the shower is not necessary. My thoughts are, in future I am thinking about crimping the cables instead of putting in a new pull switch.
Just wondering what your thoughts are on this.
Ps my main reason for this is:- I see lots of these switches burnt out where the tenants switch the shower off (still under load) and by crimping thru it is one less point for a problem to occur.
Just thought I could use the red wago's which will take 6mm and are rated at 41A
Any thoughts?
 
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K

KevinS

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  • #3
Yeah plan was to do it inside the shower pattres then fit a single blank (possibly with a bead of silicone)
i realise that I can only do this if the shower has its own on/off button, but I think most of them do anyway
 

ruston

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Just a cautionary note here ; Redring for one say that the shower MUST be connected through a double pole switch with a seperation............ and they recommend a pull switch.
 
M

MarkieSparkie

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  • #5
One major problem with this idea if implemented, the method of isolating and switching OFF for mechanical maintenance is remote form the shower unit and BS7671:2008+A1:2011 537.2.1.5 & 537.3.1.2 apply. If in the future the Plumber working on the shower unit is unintentional electrocuted, because I had assumed an MCB or main switch was a suitable means of switching OFF from mechanical maintenance. I would not like to try arguing in a Court of Law that all Plumbers should carry full lockout kits because I had not provided a simple means of locking-off via a removable operating handle, key or the use of a padlock.
 
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Strima

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And as Ruston has pointed out the manufacturers instructions may call for it. If you want to get rid of a pull switch then what about placing an isolator out of sight, in loft/cupboard etc, with a label on the CU stating where it is?
 
O

Octopus

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  • #7
If you rely on the MCB can you argue you have double pole isolation?
 
K

KevinS

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  • #11
Agreed with all your comments lads, I see no reason that the double pole switch must be fitted. Wether the manufacturers are stating this to cover their own backs - I don't know.
But yes I do agree the comments regarding plumbers and their lock off kits.
Looks like I will be continuing to fit them, but cutting the cord short so they struggle to turn them on and off.
well it was a good idea................ Briefly!
 
K

KevinS

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  • #12
Just one last point.
I also always fit them, but the number that I come across which have melted the cables, arced the contacts, etc is unbelievable. I see more of these burnt, melted than any other type of fitting. What also doesn't help is the cables are usually in the ceiling and they get covered in insulation.
it was just a case of when the NICEIC confirmed my thoughts that you don't have to have one fitted - it got my brain thinking.
I still think there must be a better way.
I know you could put a contacter in at the db, but this is expensive
 

ruston

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To be fair a lot of it is down to bad installation and rubbish accessories , sign of the times.

 
S

Snapester

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  • #14
Im with ruston, most burnt out switches are those that have been installed badly with over exposed terminals and of poor quality.
 
S

Snapester

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  • #16
Oh yeah 10mm is classic, although i have had some 16mm ones!! they get me sweating!
 
G

Guest55

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  • #17
the simple answer is to fit a D/P switch in the meter cupboard or next to CU.
i doubt the manufacterers instructions specify for it to be fitted "local" to the bathroom.
 

ruston

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the simple answer is to fit a D/P switch in the meter cupboard or next to CU.
i doubt the manufacterers instructions specify for it to be fitted "local" to the bathroom.
Lol Redring do.(on the ceiling)
 
G

Guest55

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  • #20
then dont buy redring.
In fact , dont buy any brand that tries to tell me how to do my own god damn job.
;-)
 
I got called out to a faulty shower pull cord a couple of weeks ago. As I was lowering it from the back box, all the cables popped right out of the terminals. Obviously the guy hadn't bothered re-tightening after initially pushing the switch into place to seat the cables.
The owner then started telling me how impressed he had been with the electrician, as "only a few weeks before fitting the shower he had been a photographer".
I just smiled....

So, in my opinion....yes, most shower pull cord problems are down to installation.
 
T

tevion

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  • #25
Ive found that the switches/pull cords with 2 terminal screws are pretty good, is it crabtree that do them? Its been a while since ive came across one.
 

Rockingit

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The Crabtree (or cheaper identikit Scolmore one) iso is great as you mount the base first, and the connections are on that, rather than having to pee about with upside down cable. 10mm nice and tight = no problem.
 
M

MarkieSparkie

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  • #27
If you rely on the MCB can you argue you have double pole isolation?
No need to argue, BS7671:2008+A1:2011 537.1.2 & 537.2.1.1 allows single pole isolation if it's a single phase TN system. Double pole isolation though is required for a single phase TT system.
 
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J

jumpin jax

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  • #28
On the manufacturers instructions arguement, how many of you bond kitchen sinks? They still ask for this to be done and most have an earthing/bonding tag still.

As for double pole isolation for the shower( how often it is required) it could be argued that the isolator at the board is to requirements, i know it might result in total darkness if isolated but seeing as it would only be used in an emergency then not too much of a problem
 
S

SPARTYKUS

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  • #30
They take a little time to do a good job on (ceiling pull cord switches). Last one I did was a good paying job, so I went right over the top and spent AGES doing it.

Even with 10mm2, if you make sure the two cables enter the ceiling pattress the right way in relation to the terminals, cut all cores to absolutely the right length (so no attempt to squish is required), and leave clipping the cables to joists until AFTER the switch is screwed tight, then it can be made to fit like a glove.

Which is why I still chuckle thinking about a one day rewire. Would take a 1/4 of that to do the pull cord (properley).

Bayonet fixed!
 
I really can't see a problem with fitting an isolator pull cord. Just get a deep enough back box (I've seen some installed barely deep enough to fit the switch in), and take your time. As Spartykus says, it's about working methodically.
Now, having to replace one that someone's managed to fit above a 6 inch gap between the loo and bath is a different matter entirely, especially if they've taken a 2.5mm feed to an SFCU for a fan from it as well...
 

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