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Discuss Single ph to 3 ph Ramp conversion. in the DIY Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I am about to link an inverter to a ramp I bought from a 240/230v supply. In the control box which was wired for 415v , the transformer within has 400v 24v on a label can this be operated at a lower voltage to produce the same 24v system. I will post a pic if I can.

B02C1352-D271-418F-AACB-73613B1488A4.jpeg
 
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Pete999

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Maybe it would have been advisable to have investigated the requirements before you purchase this equipment. just saying.
 

James

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I am concerned, you are asking a basic question about a transformer but you are about to convert from 400v 3ph to 230v single phase using an inverter.
There are many pitfalls waiting for you and my worry is you don’t have a good enough knowledge of the control system.
 
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  • #5
I have had a lot of advice on going down this route and quite a few electricians have done this , the motor involved is 3 ph as discussed, and it can receive 220 to 415v , this can be done with an invertor , and the system contained at present and in the past uses a transformer to utilise sensor equipment that inhibits the ramp control should it be necessary.
I would have thought maybe someone had understood that, but maybe didn’t expand enough.
 

James

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It’s a walk in the park for any experienced electrician that has been trained in machine control systems.
It will be over the heads of many sparks that only do domestic work.
Some industrial electricians can’t do this sort of panel conversion.
Please be careful who you choose to do this for you.
P.s. the transformer will have to be changed.
 
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  • #7
That’s great I thought that , yes There are quite a few around me locally that have done this , I am just jumping ahead so I can look one up somewhere. Thanks
Pat
 
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  • #8
Can I ask , moving on , I’m sure an electrician can answer this when he sees the system , but to gain knowledge up front , would the transformer be A.C. to DC 24v.
That question may seem out of my depth , but just looking for something ahead.
 
i thought u originally told us that it was a 3ph to single transformer
i think first you need to learn a bit about control circuits
 
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  • #10
I am concerned, you are asking a basic question about a transformer but you are about to convert from 400v 3ph to 230v single phase using an inverter.
There are many pitfalls waiting for you and my worry is you don’t have a good enough knowledge of the control system.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
I know what I said I maybe didn’t explain properly.
I have bought an inverter that works from a 230v single phase supply to a 3phase 230 v 3 phase supply on a motor to take either voltage from 220 - 415v . There is a transformer in it to control a sensor system based on 24v . I will need to change that , and that is what I’m asking , hope that clears everything up. I have grasped what I’m doing , but don’t worry , it’s being done properly by a qualified knowledgeable electrician . I am just trying to buy components to change upfront , it can be done !
 

James

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It absolutely can be done, I wasn’t questioning that.
I am just trying to point out that this is out of the realms of many electricians.

It needs an engineer that understands
reconfiguring 3 phase multi voltage motors
Safety and interlock control best practice
Installing and configuring inverters
 
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  • #15
Ah well they are switching transformers 230v A.C. to 24 AC sorry terminology!
 

davesparks

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The control circuit will need a 24V supply, this will need to be fed from a permanent supply, not from the output of an inverter.
 

James

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Many inverters have a 24v out for running switches for the digital inputs.
Not many have the required power output to run contactors and other equipment that you might need in the control panel.
The original wiring of the control will have some sort of fail safe for stopping the motor if overtraveled.
This will need to be used to drop the power to the nverter if not in safe position.
 

James

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Your electrical engineer should be able to provide you with a wiring diagram for his proposed control system.
If you want to know any more, post the diagram.
There are many here with experience in the right field to give it a thumbs up or down.

When you say this is a ramp, I presume you mean a car ramp to work under.
Make no mistake, not doing this correctly could lead to serious injury or death.
 
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  • #20
Your electrical engineer should be able to provide you with a wiring diagram for his proposed control system.
If you want to know any more, post the diagram.
There are many here with experience in the right field to give it a thumbs up or down.

When you say this is a ramp, I presume you mean a car ramp to work under.
Make no mistake, not doing this correctly could lead to serious injury or death.
This is exactly why I am on here , I have also made contact with an previous installer of these ramps in original conditions.
Direct drives from whom I have purchased the inverter from (not yet received) have a back to wiring assistance.Here is the spec of the one I bought:
Here is spec from direct drives:

This model is a 30A 240V input with 240V 3 Phase 18.5A output and sensorless vector motor control for 200% torque from 0 RPM and thats required for car ramp applications,

Specifications
Attribute Value
Power Rating 4 kW
Phase 1
Supply Voltage 230 V
Current Rating 21 A
Output Frequency 0.1 → 400Hz
Overall Width 170mm
Overall Length 128mm
Overall Depth 180mm
Control Panel Yes
Field Bus Communication Type Profibus
IP Rating IP20
 

James

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The spec of the inverter sounds about right, can’t tell without seeing the motor rating plate.

There are many ways this can be made to work but only a couple of ways to make this safe.
I doubt either of these companies will provide you with a wiring diagram of what you are describing.
 
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  • #22
Here is the motor plate , however the invertor is on its way , so hopefully having paid a lot of money and had a long discussion with the company, it should be good.

IMG_20190503_162306.jpg
 

James

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Ok, so you have a 2.2kw motor
Not sure why they recommend a 4kw inverter especially as it is only for very intermittent duty.

I would have more likely specified a 2.2kw inverter.

Don’t forget that this will probably require a new enclosure, I doubt it will fit in the original.
 
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  • #24
I’m only guessing that , at the time, it’s said that most of the cheaper ones although they are rated at 2.2kw they would not cope with full load with a vehicle halfway up on the lift to put it up further unless you put it down to the bottom first.
I’m not sure about fitting it with present arrangement , I would have thought that it would be wired side by side ,
Or as I have proposed on a panel board opposite .
 

James

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P.s. do not underestimate the complexity of programming a Siemens inverter.
Especially as this is a special application requiring sensorless vector and 200% overload.

It is far more complex than a standard voltage/frequency control.

Although in theory it can be done from the built in control panel, it makes life really tough.
Try to find someone local with experience with Siemens control systems.
They will have the software and programming cables to plug a laptop in to correctly set up and document the system.
 
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  • #26
Not sure if it’s Siemens or otherwise, haven’t got it yet , but mindful in what your saying.
Thanks
 

James

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Last line of spec.
Profibus communication
This is Siemens own communications protocol
I would be amazed if it is not one of there drives
 
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  • #29
Moving on a bit with the Inverter fully installed in a waterproof cabinet and the safety system wired through it to stall if any problems it has worked perfectly . Thanks for all your advice in the past.
 
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