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Irvsax

DIY
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I have just received a wifi switch that does not require a neutral. As far as I thought, it would then be a straight swap with the existing 2 gang switch.
However, I can’t seem to see an Earth on this new switch and looking at the current wiring I can’t see how it would switch over.
Any ideas?
I have attached photos of the current wiring and the image of the new smart switch
 

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westward10

westward10

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Your existing switch would appear to be two way controlling two lights so it isn't a straight forward swap. Your switch will enable only one light.
 
G

Grant1987

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I have just received a wifi switch that does not require a neutral. As far as I thought, it would then be a straight swap with the existing 2 gang switch.
However, I can’t seem to see an Earth on this new switch and looking at the current wiring I can’t see how it would switch over.
Any ideas?
I have attached photos of the current wiring and the image of the new smart switch
I’m a bit baffled here I’ve never seen a smart switch without a neutral? Does this switch you’ve got then only operate when the switch is in the “ON” position therefore you’re smart switch can not be operated via phone, tablet etc. .
 
James

James

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I’m a bit baffled here I’ve never seen a smart switch without a neutral? Does this switch you’ve got then only operate when the switch is in the “ON” position therefore you’re smart switch can not be operated via phone, tablet etc. .
A smart, or any form of electronic switch that works without a neutral is possible. And they are available.

The working principal is that the electronics only need a few mA to operate.
When switch is turned off, the current flows through the light filament and a few mA won’t make it glow.
When the switch is on, an internal resistance inside the switch generates enough volt drop to power the switch electronics.

Coming back to the original post

The switch you have looks to be unsuitable for the job you wish it to do.

As per @westward10 it looks like there are 2 lighting circuits switched separately using a total of 4 switches so they can be switched from different places.

It may be possible to reconfigure the wiring to do what you want but it will require an electrician with some expertise in smart switches and some good fortune regarding how the original wiring has been done.
 
I

Irvsax

DIY
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Your existing switch would appear to be two way controlling two lights so it isn't a straight forward swap. Your switch will enable only one light.
Ah yes. I posted the stock picture. The one I ordered is a two way switch. But that just adds one other input at the top.

I still cant see where the earth would go and how I would get all those cables from my existing switch into this one!
Post automatically merged:

A smart, or any form of electronic switch that works without a neutral is possible. And they are available.

The working principal is that the electronics only need a few mA to operate.
When switch is turned off, the current flows through the light filament and a few mA won’t make it glow.
When the switch is on, an internal resistance inside the switch generates enough volt drop to power the switch electronics.

Coming back to the original post

The switch you have looks to be unsuitable for the job you wish it to do.

As per @westward10 it looks like there are 2 lighting circuits switched separately using a total of 4 switches so they can be switched from different places.

It may be possible to reconfigure the wiring to do what you want but it will require an electrician with some expertise in smart switches and some good fortune regarding how the original wiring has been done.
Thanks for this. I posted the wrong picture, the switch I have is a 2 gang one so there is an extra input at the top. It was the sheer volume of wires in my existing switch that threw me and I am not sure they would fit into this one even if I tried.

I think I might get a professional in. Its just finding one that actually knows their way around smart switches like this...
 
D

Dartlec

Arms
Ah yes. I posted the stock picture. The one I ordered is a two way switch. But that just adds one other input at the top.

I still cant see where the earth would go and how I would get all those cables from my existing switch into this one!
Post automatically merged:



Thanks for this. I posted the wrong picture, the switch I have is a 2 gang one so there is an extra input at the top. It was the sheer volume of wires in my existing switch that threw me and I am not sure they would fit into this one even if I tried.

I think I might get a professional in. Its just finding one that actually knows their way around smart switches like this...
I'm guessing that switch might be at the top or bottom of some stairs?

There's a difference between two gang (two separate switches for different lights) and two way (switching a light from two different locations).

What you have there is a 2 gang 2 way setup, which does complicate matters and may well not be possible with the switch you have, unless you are prepared to bypass (disconnect) one 'end' of the two switches, and rely on the smart bit to do the switching (or buy an add on remote switch if they offer a compatible one.

Definitely something you probably want to get a professional in to do, though as you say may well be worth seeking one who has some experience with smart switches.
 
I

Irvsax

DIY
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Aha yes that make sense. It’s actually in a large kitchen/diner with a switch by the door at the other end of the room.

there might be a way to have it so each switch just does the one set of lights at either end of the room.

The other option would be to replace all the bulbs with smart bulbs and get a dummy switch to control those. It’s possible but we have 16 gu10 bulbs so the cost of those seriously adds up and then the switch is more by getting either smart things hub as well or Philips hue (crazy money for the bulbs)

I would like some sort of physical switch though. Just finding the best way to do it.
 
D

Dartlec

Arms
Aha yes that make sense. It’s actually in a large kitchen/diner with a switch by the door at the other end of the room.

there might be a way to have it so each switch just does the one set of lights at either end of the room.

The other option would be to replace all the bulbs with smart bulbs and get a dummy switch to control those. It’s possible but we have 16 gu10 bulbs so the cost of those seriously adds up and then the switch is more by getting either smart things hub as well or Philips hue (crazy money for the bulbs)

I would like some sort of physical switch though. Just finding the best way to do it.
Just based on the photograph, the switch with 5 wires at each end could be reduced to 2 wires, and become only a 1 way switch that does (presumably) the lights at that end. 3 of the wires on each switch just travel to the other one to allow the 2 way to work.

From the picture, it looks like it was wired with twin brown, so you'd need to determine which was Live in and which was feed to the switch, and have to live with physical switching only at each end, but it might then be possible with two 1 gang switches of the type you have.

You'd need to check that is how it's wired though, and ensure the 3 core cable was safely disconnected/terminated at each. Should be a relatively simple and quick job for a local electrician if you are at all unsure.

Re the earth - most switches unless metal clad don't have an earth terminal - the earth is normally terminated into the little brass terminal that is present in most metal back boxes.
 
I

Irvsax

DIY
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Where does the earth currently go?
to me it looks like the earths are the ones at the base of the switch? But I could be wrong. Maybe that isn’t earths at all
 
A

Avo Mk8

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I can't see any "Earth" wires In the photo's All the wires going to the switches (three on the right-hand switch, four in the left-hand switch) are all 'live' conductors at some point. I imagine there is no neutral there either.
I fear you will have difficulty finding a wifi 2 gang 2 way (alias 3 way in USA) solid state switch without a common live terminal (which not knowing how this is wired might be needed here) and without a neutral connection. Also I haven't yet seen any 2 way versions of the switch you've bought without a neutral, but happy to be proved wrong.

There's no doubt a way of doing what you want, but i don't think with the product you've got.
 
Timbo

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to me it looks like the earths are the ones at the base of the switch? But I could be wrong. Maybe that isn’t earths at all
So what are they connecting to? That's a plastic switch.
 
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