Smoke detector with separate backup batteries?

[Friesian]

Hi Guys,
Perhaps an odd question but maybe it has been pondered by someone before; Scotland newbuild timber framed house.
As required hard wired and interconnected smoke detectors with integral backup batteries. One of them is high up on a vaulted ceiling which requires scaffold to access. I know the battery only needs replaced every blue moon but I'm not keen on the thought of rigging scaffold inside the house and potentially damaging walls, carpet furniture etc.
Is there a detector that has separate/ remote backup batteries that can be routed to an accessible location with say an access panel? Seems a bit of an oversight by manufacturers if not.
Thanks Mike

 

[123]

All domestic smoke alarms have a lifespan of 10 years. Probably best to stick an Aico in that has the integrated battery so no one needs to go near it for the next 10 years or so.

 

[littlespark]

New scottish legislation states no replaceable battery’s. They have to be rechargeable built in type.

Aico EI3016 off the top of my head… but other manufacturers are available.

 

[James]

how about a small fire alarm instead of stand alone detectors?

battery backup is in the fire alarm panel.
it may end up being more expensive but possibly a better system over the intended life span.
Smoke detectors for fire alarms, need regular testing but i don't believe they need replacing at x year intervals.

 

[Friesian]

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll look into the AICO ones and other brands. I like the idea of fitting and forgetting for 10 years then just replace the detectors. Probably be the mount as well though as I doubt the same designs will be around then. Cheers and thanks again.

 

[Resu]

New scottish legislation states no replaceable battery’s. They have to be rechargeable built in type.

Aico EI3016 off the top of my head… but other manufacturers are available.

Sealed/tamper proof batteries only required for battery powered only alarms.

I second the 3016, the backup battery is rechargeable so in theory would only need access in 10 years when the detector is due for replacement anyway.

 

[SJD]

I assume the smoke detector really does have to go up high and inaccessible except by a tower? If so, you'd want to avoid having anything up there that is beeping away in the middle of the night and can't be reached to disable, stopping anyone getting any sleep!

 

[Julie.]

Sealed/tamper proof batteries only required for battery powered only alarms.

No, replaceable batteries are not permitted, neither for battery powered, nor mains - battery backup

 

[123]

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll look into the AICO ones and other brands. I like the idea of fitting and forgetting for 10 years then just replace the detectors. Probably be the mount as well though as I doubt the same designs will be around then. Cheers and thanks again.

I don't know when they changed to them but the Aico bases have been the same for many years now, I've replaced a lot of expired detectors and reused the same base. Flip side will be if it's had a bit of bad paintwork, smokers or anything it'll be hard to justify leaving a not pleasant looking base and just fitting a new head.

Kidde Firex change there bases to smaller ones for the newer fittings (the old ones you can tell are out of date as even in a smoke free house they turn towards that nicotine yellow)

 

[Resu]

No, replaceable batteries are not permitted, neither for battery powered, nor mains - battery backup

Have you a source for that? Everything I've read stipulates the battery must be sealed/tamper proof if the detector is battery powered only.

 

[Julie.]

Have you a source for that? Everything I've read stipulates the battery must be sealed/tamper proof if the detector is battery powered only.

Fire and smoke alarms: changes to the law

The law on fire alarms has changed which means all Scottish homes will need to have interlinked alarms. Guidance on what you need to know.

www.gov.scot

Go to the heading Re. Replaceable batteries

 

[Resu]

Fire and smoke alarms: changes to the law

The law on fire alarms has changed which means all Scottish homes will need to have interlinked alarms. Guidance on what you need to know.

www.gov.scot

Go to the heading Re. Replaceable batteries

I've read through that article a few times before. I'd argue that that entire section (particularly the final sentence) kind of leaves it open for interpretation that they're referring to the battery powered only detectors.

We've only been fitting the 3016's since the introduction of the legislation to be on the safe side anyway. I agree that rechargeable/sealed mains units have their place, especially in the likes of local authority housing, etc. But I personally don't see the issue with using the likes of the Ei141rc's in most (sensible!) peoples homes still.

 

[Julie.]

I've read through that article a few times before. I'd argue that that entire section (particularly the final sentence) kind of leaves it open for interpretation that they're referring to the battery powered only detectors.

We've only been fitting the 3016's since the introduction of the legislation to be on the safe side anyway. I agree that rechargeable/sealed mains units have their place, especially in the likes of local authority housing, etc. But I personally don't see the issue with using the likes of the Ei141rc's in most (sensible!) peoples homes still.

I think

Replaceable batteries​

Replaceable batteries cannot be used because the sensors in the alarm degrade over time and so will not be able to detect heat or smoke. This is why the alarm has a limited lifetime. There have been several tragedies over the years where alarms failed because their batteries expired or people have removed them. Any alarm you buy will have information on how long it lasts, which can be up to 10 years.

Sealed, tamper-proof battery units must be used because they are safer than those which allow the user to change the batteries.
.....

Is quite clear that it applies to all alarms, not just battery powered units, as even the introduction indicates the degradation of the sensor is the concern and hence the lifetime.

This section makes no reference to only being applicable to one specific type (mains or battery powered), so to me applies to all.

 

[Friesian]

Hi Guys, Thought I'd update on feedback from Aico. They say that all their products are cross compatible so I can replace the really high one with a Ei3016 using the existing base plate and it is compatible with the existing detectors which I didn't realise were also Aico but an older version. So I can keep the ones I have and just replace the one that's a bugger to get to. Thanks again for your advice and time.

 

[littlespark]

Best check the dates on the other detectors and change them too.

Remember heat detector in kitchen instead of smoke, and new scottish legislation asks for a smoke in living room now too... (or in "room that gets used the most") Ive been told by scot.gov that the living room can also be a heat detector, IF there's a coal fire, or wood burner that can blow smoke back into room - to avoid nuisance alarms

 

[Friesian]

Hi Littlespark, Interesting! I'll check my other detectors but they can only be a few years old as it's relatively a new build, but I'll check anyway. I'll also ask Building Control about the heat detector as we are thinking of installing a wood burner in the living room at some point in the near future. The room that is causing the grief is the living room and has a smoke detector at the top of a vaulted ceiling, not the easiest to get at. If I can fir one of the new ones and forget for 10 years I'll be happy.

 

[littlespark]

This is where the new scottish regs are not so clear cut...

They say by Feb this year you MUST have detection in those particular rooms... They MUST have non replaceable batterys... They MUST be interlinked.

So what happens with maybe 3 year old detector with the little square replacable battery? Take it out and replace now, or leave it and make it know to the customer that it HAS to be replaced when the date is up?

Ive not come across this scenario myself... They tend to be 25 to 30 year old detectors that im taking out.... ie, before Aico started putting "easifit" bases with their products.

 

[richy3333]

Had this scenario several times now @littlespark some customers have replaced and some refuse. I just note the certificate with the advice given and move on.