So what’s the script with these AFFDs?

[Octopus]

I’m not quite sure I get your thinking on this? Why do you think it’s an I’ll conceived idea and then if you do ignore it and something goes ti*s up how would you justify not installing it against the guidance of the regs in court etc I’m not trying to criticise I’m just wondering about your thinking on this.

My thinking is very simple ..... until the IET can summarise in 1 paragraph what the need is I won’t take the idea seriously

After all, nobody does anything about bob the builder messing around with electrics......

 

[MFS Electrical]

That’s easy to answer ..... the IET are struggling to justify the unrealistically regular updates to the regs....... so they grasp at straws like this ......

There are only so many changes that make any logical sense, and AFFD’s are not one of them

What regs do you follow?

It still leaves me wondering that if you failed to comply with this and god forbid someone was killed in a house fire that an “IET expert” testifies could have been prevented if you’d followed the regs what justification would you have to keep yourself out of jail for not fitting an AFFD?

 

[MFS Electrical]

My thinking is very simple ..... until the IET can summarise in 1 paragraph what the need is I won’t take the idea seriously

After all, nobody does anything about bob the builder messing around with electrics......

Fair enough I see your point. Nobody does anything But only Until it all goes wrong...

 

[Toneyz]

The word here is recommended.

 

[MFS Electrical]

The word here is recommended.

yeah Beama’s report is a recommendation but apparently the 18th will be making it a requirement in certain circumstances like RCDs were

 

[Octopus]

So what about mandatory rcd protection for lighting circuits .....

So at the moment surface cabling and no need for RCDs .....what is the IET justification for this change?

 

[Marvo]

What regs do you follow?

I mostly build control panels and for local customers we work to the South African National Standards which is SANS10142 for electrical. We sometimes build panels for export in which case we'll build to the US regs or British Standards or whatever regs they specify.

 

[MFS Electrical]

So what about mandatory rcd protection for lighting circuits .....

So at the moment surface cabling and no need for RCDs .....what is the IET justification for this change?

They need to line their coffers but if you think about it no matter how hard you try to make Electrical installations safe there will always be some nugget who will manage to fry themselves . So the IET will always be able to justify some crap
Speaking of nuggets I’d quite fancy a trip to McDonald’s right now

 

[Toneyz]

So what about mandatory rcd protection for lighting circuits .....

So at the moment surface cabling and no need for RCDs .....what is the IET justification for this change?

Isn't it just domestic? and this involves the possibility of the DIYer.

 

[Marvo]

The word here is recommended.

I'd guess that as with most new regs the words like 'recommended' or 'should' will be replaced with 'mandatory' and 'must' in a couple of regs amendments down the line.

 

[Toneyz]

What is the size of these things?

 

[MFS Electrical]

What is the size of these things?

by the looks of the Eaton one around 3 MCBs wide but god knows

 

[Midwest]

As mentioned by Marvo.

In the Winter 2017 edition of the (Certsure) Connections magazine, there's a piece on AFDD's.

Amongst other things discussed was 'Limitations of AFDD's'.

'An AFDD will not detect a series arc fault in one leg of a Ring Final Circuit because of the dual path the load current takes - that is, if a series break were to exist in a RFC the current would flow down the 'good leg' not permitting the arcing to exist. However, an AFDD will detect a series or parallel fault on spurs connected to a RFC.
An AFDD will detect series or parallel arcing in leads of cords sets of equipment/appliances plugged into an RFC'. (doesn't mention parallel faults on a RFC?).

I wonder if the 20th Edition will see the demise of the RFC?

 

[Midwest]

The other little interesting fact which Marvo alluded to is the testing of AFDD's, according to the same piece.

There is currently no testing device for an AFDD. However the device has its own manual test button, like an RCD etc.

An AFDD also has an automatic test function which consists of a test on switch on, and at intervals not exceeding at least once a day. If a malfunction is detected, the device will trip.

Happy days.

 

[pirate]

and just as I was beginning to think I had grasped maybe 0.001% of a millionth of a squidgeon of this electricity thingy, along comes another whatsit I've never heard of,
AFFS!

 

[gutterball]

Haven't looked into these. Could you fit one before the CU or does it have to be individual circuits?

 

[Octopus]

Happy reading:

How an Arc Fault Detection Devices (AFDD) can prevent electrical fire? - https://blog.schneider-electric.com/power-management-metering-monitoring-power-quality/2013/07/03/do-you-know-an-arc-fault-detection-device-afdd-can-prevent-from-an-electrical-fire/


No doubt the manufacturers pressed the IET for their inclusion in the 18th Edition on safety grounds ...... oops on profit grounds

 

[Octopus]

Thing is about AFDD's - if there isn't any way to test them .......... who is to say they are compliant, or faulty?

Surely this is a backwards step

At least with RCD's and RCBO's people with know and test equipment can check with tests that they are functioning properly

 

[Spoon]

I did have a quick scout about but couldn’t see any other threads mentioning it could you post a link or give me the name of it so I could have a gander?

Sorry mate. I thought I attached the thread to my post. Anyhow, here it is.
Sorry for the late reply, was busy.

 

[Spoon]

^^ loose work .... who to .... ?

Either to some nugget who won’t be concerned about applying the regs or the customer may decide they don’t actually need the work because of the extras involved either way you’ve lost the work

My thought are with the above reply.