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stevie h

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Is there anything in the regs that says you cant run a socket off the lighting circuit ? my obvious answer is that it cant/shouldn't be done , but another spark i know said you can to run booster aerials in lofts etc , and i suppose he is right as the lighting circuit is protected by the 5a mcb so there is no chance of overloading the cable.
 
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greekislandlover

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
I have seen boosters connected directly into the lights before. But I guess the reason for not wiring a socket off the lights is there is always the risk somebody will decide to run a microwave off of it, use it to power an extension lead to the garage for an arc welder or engough crimble lights to be seen from the moon.

If there's no alternative, I'd take the feed from the lights and wire it into a FCU and then the booster directly into that. But that's probably againts the regs too.
 
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Reg Man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
No reason at all why you can't....I'm sure. You can use 3 pin 5A socket plates. TV boosters and extractors are often run from a single socket or 13A fused spur.
If the circuit is correctly fused for the cable at the board it will just blow if an Arc welder or any other high output load is plugged in.
 
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Spudmiester

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
done this. booster in loft of barn conversion, came with transformer/plug all in one, so 5a socket not an option. stuck a single 13a socket off lighting circuit with label saying booster only. Couldnt get a proper supply up there as it was an after thought and everything was plastered and painted . Be right !
 
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TheFullHitSpark

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  • #5
Iv'e seen a few scenarios where there is a socket spurred off the end of a lighting circuit , mainly only in industrial installations where it would make it practical and hell of a lot less hassel for periodics and initial testing procedures (Z' s test's). It would be good practice to label the socket itself for the application, but as Reg man said " If the circuit is correctly fused for the cable at the board it will just blow" rendering the circuit electrically sound!
 
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greekislandlover

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
I know what you all are saying, but the idea of putting a socket on the lighting circuit still makes me feel uncomfortable.

It's likely that there will be no RCD protection, and as we all know, that's now a biggie. I know that the MCB will blow, but I don't think that's enough of an argument. You can still get a lethal shock off of it first. If there is a socket there - even if it's labeled only for the use of a specific appliance, some numpty will ignore it and plug in an extension to run the lawnmower. Maybe because I've seen people running hot tubs off of an extension lead and no RCD I'm a bit paranoid :)

But I wouldn't have too much of a problem with running it off of an FCU with a 3A fuse.
 
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Gazza D

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
A few weeks ago I ripped out a "ring" in a dodgy loft conversion which was off the lighting circuit and wired in 1mm!!
 
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Stevehubbard

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Just to re open this folks.... Just come across a socket wired in a bedroom thats on the lighting circuit. It's on a 5 breaker. The misses wants to run a hairdryer on it. Can I change the breaker for a bigger one or shall I just pull the socket out???
 
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Stevehubbard

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Nope it's 2.5mm but that's from socket to I'm presuming light in bedroom. Then I'm presuming regs would of made them put in 1.5mm for the lighting circuit
 
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SPARTYKUS

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  • #12
"looks like" is no good you need to be positive.

I would suggest not, any hairdryer ive seen would 'fill up' a light circuit before the lights were switched on
 
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Adam W

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
If it's a 2A socket that's switched with the lights then it's for a freestanding lamp only.
If it's a 13A socket switched with the lighting circuit it needs changing for a 2A socket and using for a freestanding lamp only.
If it's just a 13A socket without a remote switch being used for a clock radio etc it needs taking out - lighting circuits are for lighting.
 
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Stevehubbard

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  • #14
Nope it's 2.5mm but that's from socket to I'm presuming light in bedroom. Then I'm presuming regs would of made them put in 1.5mm for the lighting circuit
 
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Octopus

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  • #15
I wouldn't recommend changing the breaker!
 

RWJ

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Arms
Nope it's 2.5mm but that's from socket to I'm presuming light in bedroom. Then I'm presuming regs would of made them put in 1.5mm for the lighting circuit
Why would you need to change the cable or a smaller one that can carry less current?


OP was Steve H (now a guest?)
Then SteveHubbard reopens the thread with a similar question.
 
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BlueToBits

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
So why is it compliant to protect a 2A socket with with a device greater than 2A, and not compliant to protect a 13A socket with a device less than 13A?
 
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Wiredspark

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
The plug that goes into the socket is fitted with a 2a fuse which protects the flex to the appliance.
You are not protecting the socket. You are protecting the cable that runs to the socket. You can run a 4mm cable to a 13a FCU, the 4mm cable is capable of handling more than 13a so you could protect it with a 16a or 20 MCB/RCCB/RCBO etc. It would be pointless protecting a 13a socket (wired in a cable capable of more than 13a with considerations to cable run length, ambient temperatures and installation referance method) with a 6a MCB etc as some numpty will undoubtably plug in an appliance of greater current drawing potential causing (nusense) tripping.
 
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BlueToBits

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
The plug that goes into the socket is fitted with a 2a fuse which protects the flex to the appliance.
You are not protecting the socket. You are protecting the cable that runs to the socket. You can run a 4mm cable to a 13a FCU, the 4mm cable is capable of handling more than 13a so you could protect it with a 16a or 20 MCB/RCCB/RCBO etc. It would be pointless protecting a 13a socket (wired in a cable capable of more than 13a with considerations to cable run length, ambient temperatures and installation referance method) with a 6a MCB etc as some numpty will undoubtably plug in an appliance of greater current drawing potential causing (nusense) tripping.
Unless you are refering to a clock point, none of the 2A plugs I have ever seen has a fuse in it. - in fact non of the round pin types do, and I would go as far as to say, only the 13A plug and the UK clock point are fitted with fuses.

There is no such thing as "Nuisance Trippng". A Device only trips because it has detected a fault or overcurrent where the circuit design limits have been exceeded.
It is not a nuisance, it a safey feature. If a 13A socket is designed to power a TV amp, or a bedside light then 6A protection is plenty. The regs allow you to have an unlimited number of spurred sockets from a 13A fused connection unit, The number of sockets served by a 32A ring is only limited by the area it serves. In both these examples the circuit arrangement is designed to suit the intended connected load. You can't blame the designer if someone along the line wants to do something different with the installation. There is nothing wrong with this if it is part of an appropriate circuit design.
 
You can get 5A plugs/sockets with a fuse and round pins or a non standard plug/socket with a T earth pin, which would make it unlikely anyone will plug a arc welder in, but the FCU is probably the way to go
 
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Adam W

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
IMO this is why sockets for appliances should never be put on lighting circuits. Sure at the time it might be for just an aerial booster, clock radio, tv etc where it would be inconvenient to chase out the walls because the customer has already decorated or just 'doesn't want' any floorboards lifted, but jump down the line a couple of years to when the furniture has been rearranged, new householder moved in, requirements changed etc, and that extra socket is in a convenient place to plug the hairdrier or vacuum cleaner in (obviously having not been close enough to a socket on a final circuit to spur off), the socket gets changed to a 'normal' BS1363, and hey presto, "nuisance" tripping.

IMO a BS546 round pin plug should only be used on a lighting circuit when it is clearly for a light ONLY and is switched in the same way as the other lights, AND adjacent to a BS1363 so it is no more convenient to use an appliance run from the lighting circuit.
 
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