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Discuss Sockets in an commercial building in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Sparky83

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I'm a maintenance electrician at a office in brighton that includes a restuarant, comms rooms ups etc. My question is what are the regulations in regards to supplying socket outlets, i've been told that now they must be RCD/RCBO protected, i know about the regulations in domestic dwellings but not sure whats what in a commercial environment. Any help would be great.:)
 
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Grae79

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
the regs are the same irregardless of the environment....(always wanted to use 'irregardless' in a sentence)

check out 411.3.3...would type it out but is friday ffs :D
 
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Sparky83

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
But what do you do in a building where most of the comms equipment is business critical? Surely you can't just have them all on radials and label them up as "Server only" like you would do if it were a fridge freezer??:confused:
 
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sparkyork

would the circuits also need to be in earthed metal conduit if not below 50mm in depth? this is interesting as ive just started a commercial shop rewire so will watch this closely! must say tho i was gonna stick any socket outlet on an rcd anyway so??
 
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Sparky83

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
would the circuits also need to be in earthed metal conduit if not below 50mm in depth? this is interesting as ive just started a commercial shop rewire so will watch this closely! must say tho i was gonna stick any socket outlet on an rcd anyway so??
I'd agree with you for the job that your doing, maybe not for the tills in a shop, probably have a dedicated circuit for them labeled up as per if it were a fridge freezer like i said above, problem is stuff here is on a UPS and an rcd would cause more problems than it would solve.
 
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daisy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Hi
As already been mentioned reg 411.3.3 is the first one to consider.If you are installing the socket in a area " under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons " then additional protection by rcd does not have to be provided. The grey area is the " person ". I wonder if you being the maintenance (skilled) guy is sufficient i e no rcd. Because you could have instucted the persons even if your not there all the time.
I"m just trying to imagine you holding a training morning in the "ART OF SOCKET OUTLET MANAGEMENT"
1. start course
2. push plug in
3. break for refreshments
4. pull plug out
5. award certificates
6. finish course (take bookings for those who failed )
Check regs 522.6.6 and 522.6.7 also
good luck. Daisy.
 
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sparkyork

yeah its very grey really, im gonna have 2 sockets near the front of the shop that will be in a till area, which would be used by instructed persons (staff told to leave sokcet alone??!) but what happens in that terrifying situation where someone thinks, right im gonna pull the till plug out and plug this extension lead in and use a drill or something? i appreciate that certain situations, like the one mentioned above big computer servers etc would benefit from a good supply. but to be honest i dont think i could risk it for a couple of tills, tink they will be on an rcd.

also im feeling a bit lazy and gotta go out in a minute, but would it be just about every circuit in a commercial premises would need to bo on an rcd/rcbo anyway?

rich
 
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Sparky83

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
yeah its very grey really, im gonna have 2 sockets near the front of the shop that will be in a till area, which would be used by instructed persons (staff told to leave sokcet alone??!) but what happens in that terrifying situation where someone thinks, right im gonna pull the till plug out and plug this extension lead in and use a drill or something? i appreciate that certain situations, like the one mentioned above big computer servers etc would benefit from a good supply. but to be honest i dont think i could risk it for a couple of tills, tink they will be on an rcd.

also im feeling a bit lazy and gotta go out in a minute, but would it be just about every circuit in a commercial premises would need to bo on an rcd/rcbo anyway?

rich
I guess your probably right about all circuit needing to be RCD/RCBO protected, luckly for now we would only be changing lamps and ballests etc, nothing that is not like for like.

As far as your tills go i'd still be tempted not to put them on an RCD and label there sockets as "Till supply only" , that way you have covered yourself incase someone uses them for something they shouldn't have and also for nusaince tripping.
 
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daisy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Hi
Dont forget that you could always use a non standard 13 amp plug and socket outlet i.e. pin configeration,for your tills with no r.c.d. and r.c.d. protection for genral purpose outlets.
Remember to check though your method of installation regarding the use of r.c.d.
Good luck Daisy.
 
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Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
the regs are the same irregardless of the environment....(always wanted to use 'irregardless' in a sentence)

check out 411.3.3...would type it out but is friday ffs :D
Grae - no such word fella;):p
 
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Spudmiester

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
yeah its very grey really, im gonna have 2 sockets near the front of the shop that will be in a till area, which would be used by instructed persons (staff told to leave sokcet alone??!) but what happens in that terrifying situation where someone thinks, right im gonna pull the till plug out and plug this extension lead in and use a drill or something? i appreciate that certain situations, like the one mentioned above big computer servers etc would benefit from a good supply. but to be honest i dont think i could risk it for a couple of tills, tink they will be on an rcd.

also im feeling a bit lazy and gotta go out in a minute, but would it be just about every circuit in a commercial premises would need to bo on an rcd/rcbo anyway?

rich
You could put the tills on RCD spurs (or fused connection units with flex outlet as some call them).

Expensive, but belt and braces !
 
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sparkylee

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
is there a definative instruction to give said supervised / instructed persons about non rcd protection?
 

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