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paddy1515

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Hi

I have a enquiry about installing sockets, a friend has asked me if it is possible to run 2 x double sockets in his loft of a 13A fuse spare that is all ready feeding his boiler. Is this possible if not what is the best solution

Cheers

Dave
 
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sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Not a good idea, the boiler/immersion needs to be on its own circuit and rcd protected.
Someone will give you some more info soon.
Si.
 
C

coxy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Is the spur on its own circuit ??? Does it feed boiler or immersion ??
If feeding immersion not recommended if the immersion is still in use.If it feeds boiler you could run a couple of sockets because the boiler is not much load.Also depends on what the sockets are to be used for ??
 
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eskimo39

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
I don't think you can take it off the lighting circuit. Bear in mind that a usual lighting circuit is only on 1mm cable and protected by 5/6amp fuse/MCB. A socket requires 2.5mm and 30/32amp protection. Also depending on age of the house the lighting circuit is not necesseraly on RCD protection which a socket should be.

Because a socket is able to take many different items, you can never really estimate what load will be put on it so adding it to your boiler could cause problems in the future.

Is it not possible to take a feed up from an existing socket on the first floor?
 
yes please explain the lighting circuit idea :confused::eek::confused::eek::confused:
 
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eskimo39

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
The lighting circuit idea puzzled me as well. :confused:

I thought the only way to add sockets is either on a new circuit or via spurs. Is this corrent?
 
only properpants can explain eskimo. hes lost me :confused:
 
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uksel

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
I take it 'proper pants' is a name bestowed upon you from your abilities as a tradesman :D
 
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assured elec

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  • #12
I think "proper pants" is taking the pi** because the guy who asked the question is obviously not a spark and should,nt be attempting this kind of work
 
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uksel

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
i think you're guess is the one mister assured.

although one can't be too sure when he's only made 5 posts for us to judge his sense of humour

i think his use of a 13A fuse spare (not spur) was a bit of a tell tale there
 
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eskimo39

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Well I guess I fell for his sarcasm, lowest form of..... etc etc

I would be careful what you put on here. Some people may just believe you. Me included!!!!

I think the thing is, there's probably a million and one DIYers who just see a wire and think they can connect to it regardless of insulation, size, use.
And they are the people sitting at home right now with the lights that dim everytime the fridge compressor kicks in:D
 

stidge

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Arms
well i guess i fell for his sarcasm, lowest form of..... Etc etc

i would be careful what you put on here. Some people may just believe you. Me included!!!!

I think the thing is, there's probably a million and one diyers who just see a wire and think they can connect to it regardless of insulation, size, use.
And they are the people sitting at home right now with the lights that dim everytime the fridge compressor kicks in:d
lets ****in hope so!!!!!!!!!!;)
 
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paddy1515

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
WOW that question started abit of a rant (sorry)

OK i'm new to this trade and i was only wondering if you can run the two sockets of the fused spur because it would be a pain in the butt running them from the up stairs ring main, I can't find anything that says you can't do in the regs.

I know u def can't run the sockets from a lighting circuit thats just bloodly stupid if you ask me.

The fused spur only feeds the combi boiler on its own circuit
 
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randyrat

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
13A fused spur may be run as a spur from an existing socket on a ring circuit. As far as the regs go you can supply fixed equipment and sockets from it. You can't overload the spur as it has a 13A fuse in it. Obviously if you put a double 13 socket on it and the boiler supply....thats a potential 31 Amps in my book, (13+13+5 for the boiler) so the potential is there to overload and pop the fuse.
Sockets off the lighting circuit? Mmmm....interesting....not

Hope this helps
Randyrat
 
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assured elec

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Answer is , yes you can run as many sockets off a f/s as you like as long as the spur for the boiler come off the ring and not off a previously spured skt..

What you could do is - replace the switched f/s with a un switched 13a fuse spare , then from the load side of the spur supply another sw fuse spur 5-amp for the boiler
and also supply as many skts as you like from the load side of the unswitched 13a f/s
as the 13a fuse is the protection from overload
 
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salisbury spark

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Read the 17th editon - refer to dedicated circuits - they SHOULD be dedicated - rather than the 16th edition MUST be dedicated... - Now the electrician can make the decision on these circuits. -----I wouldnt run want2 run 2DS off it but would allow light use such as boiler pumps - even shower pumps now. Must insert here that theres usually a better (may not be quicker )way than 'tapping' into a dedicated circuit most of the time. If no ring main in loft id run from 1st floor a cable/s into loft along a safe zone - a spur off a socket in a bedroom maybe.... -
 
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paddy1515

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
Get a life idiot, I joined this site to get honest help of experienced electricians and can someone tell me why there is so my people on here who its ok to run sockets of lighting circuits!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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animal

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
Get a life idiot, I joined this site to get honest help of experienced electricians and can someone tell me why there is so my people on here who its ok to run sockets of lighting circuits!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now now Patrick;)
The regulations refer to legal installations ,of course its ok to run off the lights as long as it only plug in ,as its not part of the fixed wiring ,so it does not come under the remit for testing ,and its a few quid cheaper:eek:
 
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uksel

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
out of curiosity how would you suggest fitting a socket to plug in to from the lighting without it being fixed wiring? as i'd never entertained the thought of running power from a lighting circuit
 
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tony.towa

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
I have taken a back seat over the past few weeks and not really had time to post but in some ways it has given me the chance to read everything and think about things.
Why does everyone want to do things the cheapest way or the easiest way. Surely we should all be trying to do things the best way and then look for the easiest and most cost effective way of achieving this aim, or am I a dying breed of electricians who believe in what they do, has pride in their work and tries to to the best he can to provide the customer with what they want.
 
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12345aob

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Get a life idiot, I joined this site to get honest help of experienced electricians and can someone tell me why there is so my people on here who its ok to run sockets of lighting circuits!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have just got back from the pub so stay with me - count how many bulbs and the wattage of those add all together and divide by 230 - will give you amps. Check what breaker your amps are on? Usually 6amp - now you need to work out what ampere you have left and what use this would be to you in the form of sockets?

I would never run a socket other than an aerial booster off a lighting circuit.
 
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randyrat

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
Hmmm.....maybe the site could do with a clear out...there are a few people on here could do with removing. Offering bad and potentially dangerous advice is a no-no. Just cos you can doesnt make it right.
 
well said randyrat ;)

im with you on this one tony towa, good to hear there are still like minded people about :)
 
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eskimo39

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28
I find the easiest approach to my work standards is by asking myself if I would be happy with it in my home??

I would never be happy with a socket run from anything other that it's own ring main, I want my cooker on it's own, my boiler on it's own and my lighting on it's own as a very minimum. I have the kitchen on it's own circuit and outside lights on their own.

In theory, using the feed to the boiler would work fine. However when most electricians are installing a circuit and they know the load demanded on it, the materials used tend to be for that specification. To then go and make changes on a circuit which has not been installed with this in mind is (in my opinion) a bad move.

What would you think if when looking to buy a new home, you saw sockets fed from a boiler feed???

Taking a look at home this evening, I could confidently take a spur from the back of an existing socket in an upstairs bedroom, channel it up the wall, fill it and add a socket in the loft with no more than 3 hours work. O.K the cost's are higher but so is the standard of work and isn't this what shows the pro's from the DIYers?

We have a saying in our house..... "cheap work, cooks people"...........we'll not really, but I might just start it off!!!
 
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animal

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
out of curiosity how would you suggest fitting a socket to plug in to from the lighting without it being fixed wiring? as i'd never entertained the thought of running power from a lighting circuit
Its possable to get a bayonet fitting that connects to the end of a piece of flex,not ideal but a solution of sorts ,i also agree with Tony Towa ,whoever he is :eek:,however with the miniscule membership on here following randy the rats advise would leave him playing on his own ,or with his self;)

Hmmm.....maybe the site could do with a clear out...there are a few people on here could do with removing. Offering bad and potentially dangerous advice is a no-no. Just cos you can doesnt make it right.
yeah right on rand,youve got it in hand,perfect:eek:
 
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assured elec

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
Maybe some of us are seeing this question different to others - i see feed the boiler in the loft off a 13a spur , as in (combi boiler pulling 3 amp max fed via a spur off the ring)
don't think the guy means immersion heater , because they are not normally in the loft and are normally switched via a 20amp dp switch rather than a f/s.....
That was why i answered saying it would be ok ...
maybe abit more info would help
 

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