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SKY

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Following on from the recent crimping thread.
What is the best method for solder joining 1.5 and 2.5mm conductors?

Apart from the solder and soldering what other tools or consumables are needed?

Thanks All
 
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SJD

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Arms
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I suspect the consensus will be you don't want to do this, but if you do anyway:
1. Make sure the soldering iron is up to the job - e.g. it can deliver enough heat quickly enough (I'd suggest a temperature controlled iron with separate power supply, or Metcal thermostatic bit type - not one of the cheap "toys" you see in hobby electronics shops).
2. Watch out for the insulation melting/peeling back as you solder - and you'll need some sleeving such as heatshrink.
 
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Geordie Spark

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  • #6
I suspect the consensus will be you don't want to do this, but if you do anyway:
1. Make sure the soldering iron is up to the job - e.g. it can deliver enough heat quickly enough (I'd suggest a temperature controlled iron with separate power supply, or Metcal thermostatic bit type - not one of the cheap "toys" you see in hobby electronics shops).
2. Watch out for the insulation melting/peeling back as you solder - and you'll need some sleeving such as heatshrink.
Me Dad had a copper bolt filed to a wedge shape fixed to a length of steel rod with a wooden file handle stuck on the end ..... and a gas ring & tin of flux ........ worked perfectly every time.
 
S

SafetyFirst

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  • #7
Apart from the solder and soldering what other tools or consumables are needed?
Stating the obvious a wee bit here but a steady set of hands usually comes of use.


I have never soldered anything other than low voltage joints myself, i too believe soldering is only ever associated with electronics rather than mainstream electrical circuits.
 

snowhead

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Mentor
Me Dad had a copper bolt filed to a wedge shape fixed to a length of steel rod with a wooden file handle stuck on the end ..... and a gas ring & tin of flux ........ worked perfectly every time.
I have a very similar tool, (not a bolt, a proper lump of copper) made as part of my college course in,,,,1968.

And we used to used soldered lugs on cable and hammers and rawlplug tools and water levels and thread the end of plain rod for hanging lighting trunking non of this allthread stuff.
 
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Guest111

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  • #9
They used to solder underground cables years ago,seen it done in the days before scotchcast resin joints came about.
 
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Guest111

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  • #11
To solder 2.5 mm copper you need a 250W soldering Iron, melting insulation, dry joint, shaky hands, no, seriously I wouldn't do it.
BLIMEY MATE 250watt iron? 2.5 solid strand 100watt iron no problem,done it a few times.
 
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Guest111

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  • #13
Was only guessing :001_icon16:
Bet you aint old enough to remember the copper tipped pokers you heated up on a stove and used ordinary solder and fry,s flux are you?
 
Bet you aint old enough to remember the copper tipped pokers you heated up on a stove and used ordinary solder and fry,s flux are you?
Nah, getting 50 in a fortnite. And I wasn't dock yard trained :95:
 
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telectrix

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what you mean, remember. i still use mine. made in college, 1967. have to use a blowlamp on it now though, as we have installed central heating. got no bloody fire now.
 

ipf

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Fit physio with VERY manipulative hands. She was brilliant for my shoulder joint, among other things..
 
K

Knobhead

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  • #18
Weak-back ferules, tin-mans solder, resin (amber) flux, gas torch and a mate you can trust.
Oh sorry it’s 2.5. 100W iron, cored solder and heat shrink.
 

Golden_Boy

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Arms
To solder 2.5 mm copper you need a 250W soldering Iron, melting insulation, dry joint, shaky hands, no, seriously I wouldn't do it.
250 watt iron? what a crock... A decent 45 watt weller wil solder 10mm with NO problem at all.
Do you think all the intenal wiring in say a washing machine is crimped? Think again ... sodered joint in copper cables are absolutly fine as long as you know what you are doing..
 
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MarkieSparkie

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  • #21
The secret to good solder joints is to ensure they are well made mechanically first. When I was a first year apprentice we where taught the art of 'Whipping Joints' prior to soldering. View attachment 14018
I expect E54 and other members will also be familiar with this lost art.
 
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Geordie Spark

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  • #22
To solder 2.5 mm copper you need a 250W soldering Iron, melting insulation, dry joint, shaky hands, no, seriously I wouldn't do it.
Pure 100% bull:001_9898:

Methinks you really don't know how to solder ;)

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The secret to good solder joints is to ensure they are well made mechanically first. When I was a first year apprentice we where taught the art of Whipping Joints first prior to soldering. View attachment 14018
I expect E54 and other members will also be familiar with this lost art.
Aye ..... I taught apprentices how to do that.
 
250 watt iron? what a crock... A decent 45 watt weller wil solder 10mm with NO problem at all.
Do you think all the intenal wiring in say a washing machine is crimped? Think again ... sodered joint in copper cables are absolutly fine as long as you know what you are doing..
Agree, but a washing machine is not 32A fused like a ring mains...
 
Pure 100% bull:001_9898:

Methinks you really don't know how to solder ;)

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Aye ..... I taught apprentices how to do that.
You are righ, I don'know how to solder mains wiring because I don't and frankly never came across a soldered 2.5 mm solder joint on an installation.
 
F

Fin170

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  • #25
Soldering sounds a lot more awkward, expensive and time consuming than just say, a few push in connectors? Don't forget your 110v transformer if you're doing this on 'proper' sites :lol:
 
V

vaughant

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  • #26
Run a bead of solder onto each end first,let it cool a touch then slip heat shrink over.either rest the two joins next to each other(steadiness does help) or from memory there's a little clamping device like a bit of straight steel(thin) with two croc clips on each end that's fully adjustable to hold the wire in place while you then simply warm up the solder on each to let it flow,takes about 3 seconds then when your happy with the join,move the iron away and blow on it to cool it even quicker and your done.
It works for me.
Remember,crimps were made for convenience,not cos they were any better,just a lot easier.solderings still a skill we can use against the people that say being an electricians a dying art anyone can do,if were talking about shoving two 3pence pieces into a crimping tool and gripping as hard as you can until it clicks to say your ok then honestly,can you blame people for thinking the trades gone easy?
 
K

Knobhead

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
The secret to good solder joints is to ensure they are well made mechanically first. When I was a first year apprentice we where taught the art of 'Whipping Joints' prior to soldering. View attachment 14018
I expect E54 and other members will also be familiar with this lost art.
Properly named a “Britannia” joint.

Can you do a married joint?
 
D

drew35

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28
Most industries have stopped soldering joints on cables because they vary so much from joint to joint and person to person. I've seen plenty of soldered cables where to much heat has been used, or the cables moved whilst still setting, and you can easily pull them apart. Defiantly wouldn't want to see soldered joints becoming the norm on solid cable, I could see many a disaster happening.
 
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Philpot

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  • #30
It seems the "Sky" has "gorn orf". He/she seems to have wound up our spring and set us going. What does Sky think of the words of wisdom that we have provided him with?

I have a 1904 electricians pocket book with may words of wisdom on lots of things that are of only limited use to us today.

When in the merchant Navy we regularly used to joint the snapped flex on cluster lamps by knotting the flex( with a reef know of course). The bare wires were then insulated with vulcanising tape individually then over insulated with a fabric tape and then shellac varnish. They staid very flexible and I never had one fail. That's some thing else that you will never need to know.


Where are you "Sky"
 
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Philpot

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  • #31
My spelling is not improving much is it!!!
 
S

sparks1973

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  • #32
Me Dad had a copper bolt filed to a wedge shape fixed to a length of steel rod with a wooden file handle stuck on the end ..... and a gas ring & tin of flux ........ worked perfectly every time.
and i know its a tad off topic but stained glass windows (the real ones not the fake stick onns)...stained glass windows are STILL made using irons like the one you have suggested here....
 
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Geordie Spark

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  • #33
I've been doing some soldered joints on the wiring harness of the car I recently bought - it's a 22 year old Toyota MR2 & the harness has been bodged by various folk to fit alarms etc.

Dad taught me how to solder using his copper bolt heated on a gas ring home-made soldering iron & he taught me well as I haven't forgotten it. He also taught me how to turn on a centre lathe that he made from scratch when I was about 11. He was a real craftsman of the old school who taught me almost everything I know, but not everything that HE knew!! I didn't realise it until he had passed away though. :(
 
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Silly Sausage

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  • #34
I wish I had an old man like that!
Mine was a Probation Officer! :-(
 
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mayfair

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  • #36
Crimping joints also varies from person to person seen some bloody awful crimps.
Most industries have stopped soldering joints on cables because they vary so much from joint to joint and person to person. I've seen plenty of soldered cables where to much heat has been used, or the cables moved whilst still setting, and you can easily pull them apart. Defiantly wouldn't want to see soldered joints becoming the norm on solid cable, I could see many a disaster happening.
 
M

mayfair

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #37
We learned to solder with copper irons as well as electric ones but to do the copper iron ones we had to go down in the basement of the Charlie T college of Arts and Tech. Remember when i was working as a young apprentice for Redifussion having a warm off the gas ring things when doing some of the outside wiring.
I've been doing some soldered joints on the wiring harness of the car I recently bought - it's a 22 year old Toyota MR2 & the harness has been bodged by various folk to fit alarms etc.

Dad taught me how to solder using his copper bolt heated on a gas ring home-made soldering iron & he taught me well as I haven't forgotten it. He also taught me how to turn on a centre lathe that he made from scratch when I was about 11. He was a real craftsman of the old school who taught me almost everything I know, but not everything that HE knew!! I didn't realise it until he had passed away though. :(
 
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S

Silly Sausage

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #38
It quite amuses me this crimp vs solder joint discussion, because I'm sure most of us wouldn't think twice about making a crimped termination. With a quality ratchet tool of course.
 
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sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #39
It quite amuses me this crimp vs solder joint discussion, because I'm sure most of us wouldn't think twice about making a crimped termination. With a quality ratchet tool of course.
a lot of it is prep though Archy with crimps...as with most things..
you can always bare off too much copper when prepping a cable end for crimping....so you cant get a purchase on the other cable your crimping to (when extending)....so basically it just pulls off....now i`v come across this one a few times when inspecting C/Us....should always perform a `tug test` on these whenever you find em when on an EICR....
 
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mayfair

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #40
Good use of none tech speak Tug test does what it says on the tin
....so basically it just pulls off....now i`v come across this one a few times when inspecting C/Us....should always perform a `tug test` on these whenever you find em when on an EICR....
 

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