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Risteard

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Spot the electrical crime committed at approximately 8:45 in this video.
 
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Dan

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Is it when he "pops a blank plate on that"?

He hasn't twisted the wires and stuck gaffa tape over them properly? :D :eek:
 
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Risteard

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It it when he "pops a blank plate on that"?

He hasn't twisted the wires and stuck gaffa tape over them properly? :D :eek:
LOL. Unfortunately not correct on this occasion.
 

MFS Electrical

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Cable twisted on the floor? Cables not clipped on the floor? Cable routed through the backbox? Not really safe isolation because the spur was off and not the MCB? The abortion with the clips and the towel radiator? Come on I need to know !!! :eek:
 

Risteard

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Cable twisted on the floor? Cables not clipped on the floor? Cable routed through the backbox? Not really safe isolation because the spur was off and not the MCB? The abortion with the clips and the towel radiator? Come on I need to know !!! :eek:
Much more fundamental than any of that!
 

telectrix

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he said razzle razzle razzle.
 

Risteard

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Think along the lines of the absolute fundamentals.

Think about what we no longer term EEBAD...
 

James

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back box is not earthed.o_O
edit.
dam, was typing it when risteard put the clue up
 

MFS Electrical

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The cores are gonna get spiked by the screw on the right hand side?
edit; that was in the works being typed up as risteard and james the spark posted :rolleyes:
 
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MFS Electrical

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The cores are gonna get spiked by the screw on the right hand side?
I must be honest I didn't even notice that the backbox isn't earthed.
There is an argument though that the backbox needn't be earthed if it has one fixed lug although in this case that's never going to happen since the blank plate has no earth connection. Personally I always stick in a fly lead just to be sure.
Well spotted.
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Glad to see i'm not the only sad b*stard that watches these kind of videos on youtube.
I feel it helps you to expand your knowledge and sometimes see a better way of doing something.
have to say though that sometimes like here you see something you wished you hadn't :rolleyes:
 

Dan

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ha - Now you've said it even I can see that.

So those need earthing regardless of whether they're just being used as a kinda junction box then?
 

James

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I must be honest I didn't even notice that the backbox isn't earthed.
there is an argument though that the backbox needn't be earthed if it has one fixed lug although in this case that's never going to happen since the blank plate has no earth connection.
well spotted.
I can follow that argument when say a socket face is attached, as the socket earth is connected to a metal bush that the screw sits in, thus bonding the screws and back box.

however this is not the case for most light switches and blank plates.
except grid switches.
 

MFS Electrical

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ha - Now you've said it even I can see that.

So those need earthing regardless of whether they're just being used as a kinda junction box then?
Yeah Dan because if there was a fault in that box and it became live it wouldn't automatically disconnect the supply. Leaving the box live.
Once plastered around in many cases you may "get away with it" because the screw heads aren't large enough to be considered exposed conductive parts but the back box is and by the looks of it probably wont ever be filled around. Its just good practice and proper workmanship to earth the backbox.
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Think along the lines of the absolute fundamentals.

Think about what we no longer term EEBAD...
I was even thinking about supplementary under the sink to be fair.
 

telectrix

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I can follow that argument when say a socket face is attached, as the socket earth is connected to a metal bush that the screw sits in, thus bonding earthing the screws and back box.

however this is not the case for most light switches and blank plates.
except grid switches.
corrected that bit for you. bonding relates to extraneous parts. sorry to be pedantic. :D :D :D
 

buzzlightyear

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talks a lot done a s55T job sorting the cables for the socket for washing machine,like protecting the cables & excisable .
 

AJshep

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I hate this.. its rough. I'm pretty sure there is stupid regulation that state as long as the surface area is less than a certain CSA it doesn't require earthing as long as it is RCD protected.
I'm going to try and find it now 😂
 

James

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I hate this.. its rough. I'm pretty sure there is stupid regulation that state as long as the surface area is less than a certain CSA it doesn't require earthing as long as it is RCD protected.
I'm going to try and find it now 😂
don't think your going to find it,

best of luck.
 

James

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410.3.9
Bullet point (iii)

I would post it but that would be illegal and against forum rules.
hmmm, maybe.
if the back box is not accessable.
but you have to admit it is wrong/poor work?
 

telectrix

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410.3.9
Bullet point (iii)

I would post it but that would be illegal and against forum rules.
Cobblers. a single back box is > 50mm x 50mm, the screws can come into contact with a person. and you can't say that a connection would be difficult.
 

AJshep

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hmmm, maybe.
if the back box is not accessable.
but you have to admit it is wrong/poor work?
Completely agree, its bad workmanship.
I personally don't agree with that regulation. The only reason I found it was because I've previously come across the same issue in a new build and I had to double check the regulations before telling the customer to complain.
 

GBDamo

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Spot the electrical crime committed at approximately 8:45 in this video.
Back box not earthed?
 

Ian1981

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Cobblers. a single back box is > 50mm x 50mm, the screws can come into contact with a person. and you can't say that a connection would be difficult.
The point is that the screws can’t be gripped and can’t make any significant contact with the human body other than a finger tip, the back box can’t be touched at all.
Poor that it wasn’t earthed tho no defence against that, as you said it’s not difficult to do.
 

Risteard

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I must admit that my version of GN1 is the 17th Edition Amendment No. 3 version rather than the 18th Edition version, however it states:

"However, the IET takes the view that flush metal accessory boxes should be considered to be exposed-conductive-parts and connected to the main earthing terminal by means of a circuit protective conductor."

So regardless of what any Regulation states about screw heads the actual backbox still must be considered to be an exposed-conductive-part, which was my point.
 

Ian1981

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I must admit that my version of GN1 is the 17th Edition Amendment No. 3 version rather than the 18th Edition version, however it states:

"However, the IET takes the view that flush metal accessory boxes should be considered to be exposed-conductive-parts and connected to the main earthing terminal by means of a circuit protective conductor."

So regardless of what any Regulation states about screw heads the actual backbox still must be considered to be an exposed-conductive-part, which was my point.
Says the same thing in the 18th edition gn1 and gn8
 

AJshep

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This is one of those things that annoys me...
We all agree that you should earth metal back boxes...
Like I said I came across the same issue in a new build and the customer was ready to complain but I stopped them in the end, only because of that regulation I posted earlier. I wanted to be 100% sure I could back up my arguement. The guidance notes are obviously very clear, however that regulation is not.. wish the IET would be a bit more specific sometimes.
 

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