Spur for diswasher and washing machine in radial circuit

[yarcyk]

Hi.
I would like to know if I can connect socket to radial circuit to power diswasher and washing machine (double socket) with fused spur. I know that circuit should be fused 20A so if I use 13A fuse it will probably blow fuse if both working together, can 20A fused switch be used? (I don't think it can but want to know for sure), otherwise what is the best solution to have both appliances connected with fused spur switch above the worktop in the kitchen?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You could use a 20A un-fused switch.

 

[Knobhead]

Why are you using radials and not a ring? FCU’s on a ring sit easy with me, off a radial?
Poor / inexperienced workmanship would spring to mind if I came across it.
I think E54 has nailed his colours to the mast regarding radials, well mines now along side it.

 

[markharris]

Why is a radial a sign of poor workmanship ? I don't understand.

 

[needasparks]

I have to agree with the others, iv'e never done a radial in a kitchen unless its dedicated.
I did work with a polish sparks years ago who always wired 4mm radials to do all the kitchen appliances by that i mean one radial serving all of them. I had a chat about it and he thought i was mad as its done all over europe he said. I just gave up.

 

[Knobhead]

Right I’ll be honest.
A lot of the 5DW electricians don’t know how to fault find on a ring. A bit of basic schoolboy physics is all that’s needed, but I’m old fashioned.

View attachment 9015

 

[markharris]

Please explain why a kitchen radial is bad practice, it is in the brb(or bgb) , I am not being funny, I would like to know the reason why it's wrong

 

[yarcyk]

Thanks. That answer my question.

 

[morph]

nowt wrong with a radial in kitchen

 

[yarcyk]

Thanks Spinlondon.
If I use 20A un-fused switch will appliance be protected? But the question remains if I can connect them both to double socket?

Tony, there is a radial in the kitchen and I am installing new kitchen. I'm not gonna change radial for ring as I think the whole installation will need to be updated at some point anyway.

 

[Richard Burns]

The circuit breaker at the origin of the circuit will protect the cable to the double socket outlet so long as the circuit has been correctly installed. The fuse is not there to protect the appliance just the cable. The appliance if plugged in to the socket it will have a 13A fuse in the plug so no problems there.

Use of the 20A switch should be fine so long as the appliance ratings are not above 20A in total.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There's the rub, the minimum rating for a BS1363 double socket is 20A, if a 20A switch is not suitable, will the double socket be?

 

[seb77]

Nothing at all wrong with a radial. aslong as you install 4mm2 cable protected by a 32amp in the kitchen. 20amp with 2.5mm2 cable serving the bedrooms and another 20amp radial for downstairs.

Easier to 1st fix(no return to c-unit).Easier and quicker to test.Easier to fault find.Less cables in fuse box to 2nd fix. I think its the way forward. Some sparks cant see past the "ring final circuit".

Obviously i do still install rings but im leaning loads more to a radial circuit. My NAPIT assesor put me on to the idea "why u still messing around with rings" i quote.

 

[yarcyk]

Thank you all. Good points there. This is very helpfull. Thanks again.

 

[drew35]

I thought we were supposed to radial everything now to save the planet? Anyway exactly what are people using in their kitchens that's using so much? The kettle is the most demanding in my house, 3kw, and that's on for what a minute at a time. I have a large American style fridge/freezer but that doesn't use much. A microwave 800w? On for a couple of minutes. The only thing on for any length of time is the washing machine, and that's only using 2kw when its heating. It sounds like I need to get some more appliances out there, and a couple of plinth heaters to keep up with the Jones.

 

[yarcyk]

Washing machine and dishwasher if on at the same time and heating water can be around 4-5kW as both have similar heating elements.

 

[Engineer54]

Nothing at all wrong with a radial. aslong as you install 4mm2 cable protected by a 32amp in the kitchen. 20amp with 2.5mm2 cable serving the bedrooms and another 20amp radial for downstairs.

Easier to 1st fix(no return to c-unit).Easier and quicker to test.Easier to fault find.Less cables in fuse box to 2nd fix. I think its the way forward. Some sparks cant see past the "ring final circuit".

Obviously i do still install rings but im leaning loads more to a radial circuit. My NAPIT assesor put me on to the idea "why u still messing around with rings" i quote.

Only for electricians that are ignorant of the benefits and adaptability of Final ring circuits. You design a circuit of any description based on the needs and requirements of the situation, taking possible future needs/requirements into consideration....

 

[seb77]

"beem me up"

 

[seb77]

at the end of the day it can still only take 32amps pal

 

[needasparks]

I seem to remember that you could only do this within 50sq/m, where a ring could be in 100sq/m, so correct me if i'm wrong, i'm getting old and forget things real quick.