Spur off a Spur, extra sockets?

[Diy592]

Hi,

Wanting to have an extra double socket and a single socket installed in my kitchen.

Getting mixed answers whether I can take a spur of another spur, I have attached a picture of what is required. One socket if for a dishwashers the other is for above worktops.

Advice would be appreciated?

 

[westward10]

No any spur from a ring final circuit unless it supplies a single point would require circuit protection by way of a BS1363 fuse connection unit.

 

[The Ghost]

Why don't you turn it into a ring final circuit and dispense with the spur? After all it is a kitchen and you will need more sockets than that. I am not too sure about the wisdon of sockets low down and water things by them regs aside.

 

[Andy78]

Depends on quite a few factors. Get a competent electrician in to advise you about this proposed alteration.

 

[westward10]

Is the existing circuit in steel conduit?

 

[Dave OCD]

And you need to be certain that any point that you intend to take a spur from is actually part of a ring and not a spur already. Spurring off spurs is a no - particularly in a kitchen where the loading on sockets will be higher than anywhere else in a house. And please be careful if intending to chase down where the red vertical line is shown, you may well hit the cooker cable between the switch and outlet plate as I've often seen this link installed diagonally.

 

[Octopus]

Seen it done many times ..... normally burns out connections... so best not done

 

[westward10]

The two points he shows look like a spur already or one of the reds at the left point isn't connected.

 

[Amateur]

Are you certain that the starting point is a spur and not a ring? Its impossible for people to advise from those photos sorry.

It could be the case that the start point single was originally a double on the ring and they swapped it to a single socket along with a FSU (also now on the ring) to isolate the socket below it for a washing machine etc.

On the back of the FSU are there 1 or 2 cables in the IN/SUPPLY terminal?

Im only a DIY'er but i would be very careful adding what you have suggested as you might find when you chase the wall out that you cut straight through the cooker cable in the wall unless youre removing it anyway?

Edit - Sorry Dave, just seen you mention the cooker cable already! Mine was diagonal in the wall between cooker switch and wall outlet plate, found it when i ripped it all out for my 1st fix rewire ready for the pro's coming in to 2nd fix.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I guess far too many so called electricians just go out and put things together and if it works then ask for the cheque. no money back or guarantee when it goes wrong.
the thing i have always thought was good advice when dealing with any tradesman is ask them to explain why they are doing it the way they have decided and what regulation or rule makes it permissible.
There are some useful explanations of what people have said in the big yellow book of fun known as the 17th edition. might help the OP if he has a copy. appendix 15 - pages 453 and 454.
I was trying to explain the very same issue on a quote recently,as the customer wanted me to join a couple of sockets onto a ring, so out came the big book.

 

[The Ghost]

so out came the big book

Guess that shuts them up.

 

[Toneyz]

On face value only from the photo's shown the wiring is twin & earth installed in metal conduit (in part maybe) it looks like a ring final circuit, how ever this will need to be proven by testing. There looks like there is a red live cable come out of the L.H.S. single socket. You maybe able to take the link between the socket and D.P switch out and extend the ring.

 

[Diy592]

Hi,
Thinking about adding to the circuit now? (picture attached). In the photo the red wire that is being dicussed fell out.

 

[Dave OCD]

Sorry if I'm being thick but not totally clear, are you saying you just want to change the existing high level single socket to a double now and leave the DP switch and single as arranged at the moment ?

 

[Diy592]

Sorry if I'm being thick but not totally clear, are you saying you just want to change the existing high level single socket to a double now and leave the DP switch and single as arranged at the moment ?

Want to leave the current setup and add a new double socket and a new single and and swich fow dishwasher.

 

[Dave OCD]

Ok in that case you really do need some assistance from a competent Sparks IMO, better safe than sorry.

 

[Toneyz]

Hi,
Thinking about adding to the circuit now? (picture attached). In the photo the red wire that is being dicussed fell out.

View attachment 37521

Yes this is what I meant in my reply remove the short link between D.P. switch and single socket extend ring but as said you will need to confirm ring the assuming that you are burying the cable in wall also sockets used by ordinary persons RCD additional protection will be required.

 

[Diy592]

Yes this is what I meant in my reply remove the short link between D.P. switch and single socket extend ring but as said you will need to confirm ring the assuming that you are burying the cable in wall also sockets used by ordinary persons RCD additional protection will be required.

Yes this is what I meant in my reply remove the short link between D.P. switch and single socket extend ring but as said you will need to confirm ring the assuming that you are burying the cable in wall also sockets used by ordinary persons RCD additional protection will be required.

Citcuit is RCD protected, I am a DIYer, I think it on the ring I can follow the cable under the floor to next plug?

 

[Toneyz]

Hi,
Thinking about adding to the circuit now? (picture attached). In the photo the red wire that is being dicussed fell out.

View attachment 37521

Yes this is what I meant in my reply remove the short link between D.P. switch and single socket extend ring but as said you will need to confirm ring the assuming that you are burying the cable in wall also sockets used by ordinary persons RCD additional protection will be required.

 

[Diy592]

Can the cables be buried without conduit?