standard double gang wired to a cooker circuit

[millymolly35]

Hi Guys,
I need your help again, basically I have an electric oven and gas hob that are both run off standard wired plugs and plugged into an electric socket behind the oven, i think this bit is okay. Just above and slightly to the right of the hob I have a double gang socket, that when you take the front off it is wired up to red and black wires which I think is the old cooker circuit, is this compliant with regs? I have been told that the plug socket is too close too the hob by one electrician whilst another said it wasnt a major problem and would pass a periodical, my main concern however is the fact that its wired to the cooker circuit is this a problem ?? Thanks in anticipation

 

[Paul.M]

What watts does your electric oven use? This should be in the manual.

Using the old cooker circuit and changing it into a two gang socket is fine. If you can plug portable appliances into it for use outdoors it needs to be rcd protected.

The location of this socket? You've had two sparkys round saying different things. The questions I would ask are:- does heat from the cooker effect the socket? Can trailing flex touch the cooker rings? Can cooking oils and grease build up in the socket causing a fire hazard? (also steam). If yes to any of those I'd move it to a better and safer location away from the cooker.

 

[telectrix]

when you say socket behind oven, do you mean below worktop height, and is the socket supplied from the cooker isolator, or on the ring final/ radial socket circuit. if the latter, then you have no accessible means of isolation.

 

[Paul.M]

Good point Tel, I missed that. If its no longer on its own circuit it must be plugged into the ring and the inconvenience of turning off the downstairs ring plus we don't know what load the oven is?


Note to self, pay more attention to the question.

 

[telectrix]

think we'' ll have to wait for more info. if the socket/s are supplied from the cooker isolator in 6mm should be no problem.

methinks might be a cooker outlet has been changed to a double socket .

 

[millymolly35]

Yes the socket is below worktop height and you have to physically remove the oven to get to the plugs that both the electric oven and gas hob are plugged into, but the items came with plugs attached so pressumably are ok to be plugged straight into a standard socket, and dont require mains wiring. The socket is not supplied from the mains as there is no mains socket currently, due to the fact that the mains is wired up to a standard 2 gang socket also.

 

[telectrix]

now you got me confused. if you switch off the cooker switch, does that switch off the oven/hob sockets?

 

[millymolly35]

Ok ill try and explain but please understand this is all a bit foreign to me ! Underneath the work surface and behind the built in oven is a standard 2 gang socket which the oven and hob are plugged into. Then above the work surface slightly to the right of the hob is another 2 gang plug socket, which looks like a standard socket, however the cabling behind is different and I can only assume that this was the original cooker switch that has been replaced with a standard socket.

 

[Paul.M]

I think the socket behind the cooker is the old cooker contact now changed to a socket and the socket above and to the right is the old cooker switch.

Get this looked at mate, you need local isolation for your cooker instead of pulling it out if you need to switch it off.

 

[telectrix]

if the double socket above worktop was the old cooker isolator, you should be able to isolate at the CU ( should be marked "cooker") and check that that's the only circuit " dead". then a simple case , if it's suitably wired in 6mm, would be to replace with a cooker switch incorporating a single socket outlet if required. this would give you local isolation without any wiring needed.

 

[domestic spark]

If that's the case that's bad news as you nO longer have a means of isolation for the hob and oven this needs to be a 50a switch! Also in new installs I put sockets, sPurs 300mm from edge of cooker

 

[Paul.M]

If this is the case you need to make sure the mcb is no greater than 32A if both sockets are on 6mm cable.

 

[telectrix]

a 45A switch would suffice as long as a 32A MCB and 6mm cable. the load on the switch is only for the oven at 13A as it's fused at its plug.

 

[millymolly35]

totally confused now although thank you all for trying to help, think I need to get a sparky in who can clear the mud thats currently blurring my vision

 

[telectrix]

OK, firstly, find out which MCB turns off the supply to the cooker. then see if all other sockets are live with that one left off.

 

[millymolly35]

ok when you turn off the cooker MCB it turns off the cooker and the socket above it - Strange ??

 

[telectrix]

no. it's good. that means it's 99% that the socket above was once a cooker isolator and you could just convert it back with a cooker switch with socket incorporated. with it isolated, undo the socket ( above worktop ), lift it forward, without disturbing the connections and see if it's 6mm cable ( about 4-5mm dia. inc insulation.). if 6mm then it should be a 32A MCB. if smaller cable ( 2.5mm) it would need the MCB downrating to 20A.

 

[millymolly35]

ok just managed to safely get back into my kitchen after having gas fitters in there for the past day, ive undone the socket and the wires are thicker than those you find on a standard plug plus they are red, black and the earth, whereas arent they normally blue and brown. So im pressuming that what your saying is that the plug underneath the worktop is wired directly to this one above it, and therefore by replacing this plug socket with a cooker switch it will give me my isolater ??? If this is right do I then still have a problem with the position of the socket above the worktop, it is 20 cm directly above the control side of the hob but not the actual rings to move this would be a right pain. ???

 

[Martin Bradley]

Milly is it like this.

 

[millymolly35]

no not really