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dipeshparmar198

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Hi all.. i am a newly qualified spark. City and Guilds level 2 and 3 and 17th edition. going through a career change and trying to get into the field. Very frustrated as there is little chance for me to gain experiences. I have very little on site experience so little confidence however very determined and motivated. I studied part time evening college to gain my qualifications however am stuck on work.. I am willing to work for a very competitive rate as a electricians mate and to gain experience. Even to be able to stay with a company or firm. Can anybody give me some advice... please.....
 
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StuSpiers

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
we are in a double dip mate - crap aint it.

Construction industry freezes up tight in a recession.
 
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dipeshparmar198

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  • #4
its horrid... im new to the trade and just want some practicle work experiance... heck im even willing to work for free..

i applied to over 150 compaies for some experiance and to be a electricians mate but nothing.....
 
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RISElectrical

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  • #5
Times are tough but do seem to be getting better by all accounts. try looking in the jobs section on here! I posted a few up and got very little response so maybe everyone is busy :)
 
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Tidy Max

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  • #6
Dipesh i am in the same position. i work for a company however we don't do any of your normal 'electrical' work. i've now realised what my only option is and i have just formed a ltd company. i shall be spending the next few months getting insurance, website, van and sign writing in order then i will be making the leap.

For what i lack in experience i make up for in motivation. My practical knowledge of electrical systems is good however what i lack is skilled domestic experience, i.e. the quickest way to do things in a safe and accepted manner. I, like you have been offering services for free/cheap just to gain experience. However working your arse off for a company will get you nowhere.

Good luck buddy
 
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RISElectrical

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  • #7
However working your arse off for a company will get you nowhere.
Thats probably one of the more foolish things I have seen written to be frank. Working your ass off for a company is the only way you will gain the experience you need. It could lead to progression within that company etc etc.

You say you lack how to do things quick in a safe and accepted manner, well this is something youd learn at a company working with lots of different electricians.
 
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dipeshparmar198

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Thats probably one of the more foolish things I have seen written to be frank. Working your ass off for a company is the only way you will gain the experience you need. It could lead to progression within that company etc etc.

You say you lack how to do things quick in a safe and accepted manner, well this is something youd learn at a company working with lots of different electricians.
I agree with you all. I would like to start my own but just do not have the confidence. I even considering part p. i have no idea what to do or where to start. 4 years ago when I started my level 2 I bough it would be straight forward to apply for electricians mate.

Ii work full time doing it help desk and jumping to anther career has Been hard enough.

I don't mind working my balls of but need a good electrician to show me the ropes and some one to give me a chance . I'm 28 years old so not a young youth that will mess around. I am keen to learn and keen to get going. I have aspirations to set my ow company up or even help a well maintained company expand just need the extra boost and somebody to guide and advice me.
 
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dorian0505

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
This thread is pretty much exactly what i'm looking for an answer to! lol. I also want to know is, do i need a CsCs card or an Ecs card to be a sparky's mate on sites? If it is a Ecs card then what type of card isit i need? Any help/advice would be much appreciated
 
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dipeshparmar198

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
This thread is pretty much exactly what i'm looking for an answer to! lol. I also want to know is, do i need a CsCs card or an Ecs card to be a sparky's mate on sites? If it is a Ecs card then what type of card isit i need? Any help/advice would be much appreciated
Hi from my research yes you would need a CScs eva or jib to get on any site as a matter of health and safety. I think all sparked trying to find work and in same boat need to join a commuter or something to get the ball rolling again.
 
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Tidy Max

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Personally from my experience working for a company and working your arse off for a company make no difference, i have put 110% into my job and it goes unrecognised so i decided i should set up and work 110% for myself and reap the benefits.

My job has not lead to progression and has not given me the experience i want to be a domestic electrician. if anything it has hindered my career, at the time it was a means to complete my apprenticeship along with promises of further training and JIB rates. All of which might i add fell through. Although i work to high standard (and safely might i add) i am sure that i don't do things in the quickest way. By setting up on my own in this position my problem will be the amount of labour to charge and the amount of time it takes me to do a job. Both are factors which i have considered alot. But then i look at my current wage and sacrificing the amount i will charge per day/hour to compete with other faster electricians is a hit i am more than willing to take.

I only meant to offer advice as i feel i am in a similar situation to the OP and have been for a couple of years. Maybe sending out another 150 job applications might get him somewhere.

If working your arse off for a company works so well, it makes you wonder why people ever both setting up on their own.

And working your arse off for a company is most certainly NOT the only way you will gain the experience you need, i could be over dramatic and say its the most foolish thing i have ever read but that has already been done once in this thread.

(i rest my handbag)
 
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Tidy Max

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
@dorian0505 (sorry i have not got used to quoting yet!)

Most sites subscribe to the considerate/safe contractor scheme, and any site that does subscribe you will need a card to get on. Most cards have the same status on a building site the only difference between cards being if its a skilled profession you need the qualifications to back it up, you could apply for a labourer card or a 'mate' card if they have one and that would be fine.

Its a usefull thing to have, i wish some of my friends had one just for when i needed a lift on site! Good luck!
 
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dorian0505

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Thanks both for the reply - @Max Well i have C&G 2330 Level 2 and 3 along with NVQ 2. Is just a normal 'Labourers' Cscs card acceptable to carry out electrical work on site? or would i need a Ecs card?
I've been ringing and hunting for information for the last few hours and i can't get anywhere! Lol.
Cheers
 
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Tidy Max

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
No worries, go to this link, on the left there should be a grading definitions link, click that then find which one you apply to.

Joint Industry Board

To apply for a card the form is the same for all JIB disciplines (I THINK)

The JIB are a nightmare to deal with really, even when you apply it can take weeks to arrive. Theres nothing to worry about with the test though, its very easy. If you have completed your lvl2 + 3 its no different to the health and safety exam you do as part of that course (201/301 i forget, seems like a long time ago lol)
 
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dorian0505

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  • #15
Cheers mate i'll get looking now!
 
K

KFH

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  • #16
It does worry me when I see people thinking that domestic is an easy way to start and gain experience. Apart from having some idea about the old wiring regs it requires a knowledge of building practices and how a house/flat has been constructed given it may have been built 100 years ago or last week I do worry about what the householder is going to get from people without that knowledge. If you have to knock a hole in a plaster and lath wall can you repair it, or is there an alternative to knocking a hole? Or how will you get a T&G floorboard up without making a mess of it and more importantly get it down again without it squeaking. Unless you are working on new builds the electrics are the easy part of domestic.

I can appreciate your frustration trying to get experience but it is difficult for most trades at the moment and why should a company take you on knowing that once you have the experience you may well set up in competition with them.

Having said that please do not give up, it is difficult for anyone looking for a job at the moment you have to determine how you are going to add value to any company you work for and try selling yourself. There are also implications for companies in having people work for free in terms of insurance and minimum wage.

Good luck.
 
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Tidy Max

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Not only do i appreciate your concern but i also share it KFH but i feel at a complete loss as to what to do! I have worked in alot of different environments although the majority of my work has been in building sites, i am in a position where upon setting up the business i will have people that will sub out to me some of which are domestic sparks who will show me some of the skills that will help. Effectively easing my way in. Your example of t n g floor boards is spot on though and reading the regs daily in conjunction with this website will certainly not teach me practical skills.

Really i should create my own thread and explain my story rather than hijack this gentlemans thread and give the impression i am some vegetable with all the gear and no idea as i am certainly doing myself no favors. Although i must add its beyond frustration, more so when i do the odd foreigner for free and go in after a time served spark and find mistake after mistake and just plain old rough cowboy work. Hearing "well i wont be using him again" is cold comfort to the point of absolute zero!

I appreciate your input KFH and if i start my own thread about my past, present and future plans i hope that you will contribute some advice to as it will be much appreciate. Although i'm somewhat of a virtual recluse and don't like to start threads as people don't usually reply haha (indicating towards stupid threads or pointless questions i suppose).
 
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pjcomp

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
One of the reasons for established businesses - whether one-man band or bigger - won't take you on for free is down to safety and insurance. This isn't just the usual 'elf n safety spoiler - if I take on someone under the circumstances you describe I am responsible for their safety, their personal protection equipment, their health on the job (unexpected exposure to asbestos, for instance, falling over something) and just as importantly what they do on the customer's site/premises. And if the HMRC found out, I'd probably have to pay your National Insurance even if you were unpaid. The bureaucracy is a minefield out there and doesn't do anything to encourage giving someone a helping hand.

PJ
 
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RISElectrical

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Personally from my experience working for a company and working your arse off for a company make no difference, i have put 110% into my job and it goes unrecognised so i decided i should set up and work 110% for myself and reap the benefits.

My job has not lead to progression and has not given me the experience i want to be a domestic electrician. if anything it has hindered my career, at the time it was a means to complete my apprenticeship along with promises of further training and JIB rates. All of which might i add fell through. Although i work to high standard (and safely might i add) i am sure that i don't do things in the quickest way. By setting up on my own in this position my problem will be the amount of labour to charge and the amount of time it takes me to do a job. Both are factors which i have considered alot. But then i look at my current wage and sacrificing the amount i will charge per day/hour to compete with other faster electricians is a hit i am more than willing to take.

I only meant to offer advice as i feel i am in a similar situation to the OP and have been for a couple of years. Maybe sending out another 150 job applications might get him somewhere.

If working your arse off for a company works so well, it makes you wonder why people ever both setting up on their own.

And working your arse off for a company is most certainly NOT the only way you will gain the experience you need, i could be over dramatic and say its the most foolish thing i have ever read but that has already been done once in this thread.

(i rest my handbag)
My point was that experience in the OP case is what was missing and I don't believe that the best way to gain experience is to go it alone and learn that way. Experience is best gained working for a company with guidance and opportunity to work alongside people.

Its not like driving where you pass your test and then get better by getting the hours in driving. There is so much that an apprenticeship cant teach you, I think that serving your time then going it alone isnt the best plan. you can put 150% effort in but without experience of working (for somebody else) I think you'll struggle. I could be wrong but it is my opinion and also my opinion that it was foolish to suggest the best option available to someone without any practical experience is to get set up a ltd company and crack on as it were!

"I have very little on site experience" - OP quote to which you said you are in a similar position, so I assume your also newly qualified and lacking experience. You also stated "
For what i lack in experience i make up for in motivation."

Seriously this is 1 of the problems out there. Newly qualified people that don't have the experience to do things thinking that with a practical knowledge gained from college that you are all good to go.

I am all for getting experience but I wouldn't recommend doing it working for yourself and unsupervised. Apprenticeships are 4 years, then there is a reason why the JIB (although they are daft) say 2 years working minimum until approved status... even then you wont know enough I dont think to run a business.

I will jump down off my soap box now!
 
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Tidy Max

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Fair enough, all very good points. As mention to KFH i should start my own thread rather than make myself look a numpty with badly worded sentances. I'm in a better position than the OP but i have the same problems, is what i should of said. In a way this comes back round to the inadequacies of the governing bodies. I am in a position where i can apply for approved status (i was last time i checked the gradings) yet really i shouldn't be. With the foreigners i've done i could also apply for NICEIC. I could go on for days, and i will start my own thread i think haha.

Back to the OP, good luck in whatever happens, keep applying for jobs, i know a large contractor (commercial not domestic) that are taking on at Christmas i'l PM you some details. Chin up and crack on
 
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alarm man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
Thats probably one of the more foolish things I have seen written to be frank. Working your ass off for a company is the only way you will gain the experience you need. It could lead to progression within that company etc etc.

You say you lack how to do things quick in a safe and accepted manner, well this is something youd learn at a company working with lots of different electricians.
agree with ris,you have to graft ya nuts off wether you work for yourself or a company,many on here would love the security as much as it can be these days of being employed fulltime by a company with all the benefits like hol/sick pay vehicle etc,theres good money to be made working for the right company as many on here will testify,going s/e isnt the holy grail,i admire anyone that does it because its a risk giving up being employed to go s/e,but well worth the risk if it comes off,but its not for me..
 
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Tidy Max

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
Fair enough, i can currently make more working in a factory than i make now, how many sparks on this site work for £8.50 an hour? At the very worst i come out <10k debt through a silly venture and i have to get a job in factory to pay it off. At the best i become my own boss and can do the work i enjoy doing. Now is the time to do it while my overheads are low (still living with parent) rather than sticking to a ****e job, renting a place of my own and living in regret!

Its not just a grass is a greener decision, its been over a year of research, deliberation and saving, certainly not a decision that has been made on a whim. Running a business isn't for everyone, not everyone has the motivation, gumption and possibility stupidity to risk such a venture, even more so in the position that i am in! But some do, and its a risk im willing to take. Its a risk that i certainly wouldn't have taken after just passing my qualification and in reality i realise the stupidity of the suggestion to Dipesh, it was more a case of underestimating myself than anything i think!

But if you Alarm man, found yourself in a position where you were on just over minimum wage and unable to get another job, i am sure you would consider your options, and once you rule retraining out of the window, they start to become very limited!
 
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alarm man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Fair enough, i can currently make more working in a factory than i make now, how many sparks on this site work for £8.50 an hour? At the very worst i come out <10k debt through a silly venture and i have to get a job in factory to pay it off. At the best i become my own boss and can do the work i enjoy doing. Now is the time to do it while my overheads are low (still living with parent) rather than sticking to a ****e job, renting a place of my own and living in regret!

Its not just a grass is a greener decision, its been over a year of research, deliberation and saving, certainly not a decision that has been made on a whim. Running a business isn't for everyone, not everyone has the motivation, gumption and possibility stupidity to risk such a venture, even more so in the position that i am in! But some do, and its a risk im willing to take. Its a risk that i certainly wouldn't have taken after just passing my qualification and in reality i realise the stupidity of the suggestion to Dipesh, it was more a case of underestimating myself than anything i think!

But if you Alarm man, found yourself in a position where you were on just over minimum wage and unable to get another job, i am sure you would consider your options, and once you rule retraining out of the window, they start to become very limited!
youve certainly do it the righnt way by going to college,but theres a good few posts like yours on here,its a tough time for sparks with years in,so its going to be extra tough without the expierence but good luck all the same
 
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Octopus

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  • #24
Why don't you add your location to the profile all views see?


Just last week one guy on here was complaining he couldn't get (paid) help in North London!!
 
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RISElectrical

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
I've posted 2 jobs in the last 2 months also and the response was minimal
 
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MKS

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  • #26
What qualifications do you have manx? As an Agency will in theory pay you more than factory!
 
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Tidy Max

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  • #27
I thought it was on actually Murdoch #9Im in Bolton), to the left under my join date? I have my 2330 MKS, got my 17th booked and then i am doing the 2391 course and just generally revising alot at the moment. The company i work for specailise in PA systems/ voice alarm/disabled refuge/induction loops etc. When i have applied for jobs i just get told i don't have the correct experience. Where are you based Rise?
 
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RISElectrical

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28
Based in the North West, RISE is my company, a small contracting company and I work full time as a contracts manager for a company in Chester.

£8.50 ph isn't all that bad considering you don't have 17th edition etc. Working self-employed, after overheads etc you might be surprised when you only earn £8.50 an hour then also. Ask around on here and you will find a lot of people struggling to make any profit at all at the moment.
 
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Tidy Max

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
What type of work do you do then?

Im fortunate to have a f/t job in that case. But the wage really doesnt cut it for the amount of responsibility. But im using it to my advantage and doing all my quals whilst working. My employer wont contribute so i have to have the time as unpaid leave but its better than leaving the job. Regardless of how much money i would make self employed. £8.50 an hour earnt solely by me/for me will taste slot sweeter than the £8.50 an hour given to me by an employer. I appreciate your comment regarding the wage even though i dont have 17th but its no consolation as i was told they would put me through it and kerp me on jib rates. And the economic climate is no excuse, we are a specialist contractor and although work has dipped in certain sectors we have still had a constant stream of work.

The grand plan is stay in this job whilst i finish my quals, once finished go self employed and hopefully get subby work doing what im currently employed to do and use the additional free time to gain domestic experience. A lovely plan in theory however my confidence in it is a little bruised after this thread.

What do you think?

Once again i do appreciate any advice/ comments passed.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
good luck out there mate stick at it i worked with my parner for my self for 3 years we done well but it takes over your life aswwell its not easy working for yourself very hard going and were i am there seems to be that many vans with elecy logos on makes me wonder if theres enough work for everyone
 

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