JIB Electrotechnical Certification Scheme (ECS) Starting up properly.... the expense and minefield of regs begins...

Discuss Starting up properly.... the expense and minefield of regs begins... in the Certification NICEIC, NAPIT, Stroma, BECSA Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hello all.

Sparky all my days (but worked in a different industry the last 5 years). Full 17th edition, 2394 and 2395 Testing and inspection. ESC Gold card.

Covid has killed my existing job, and at 53, I am struggling to find something new.
So... do I go back to full time sparking? Ideally not, but means must.

But, I am VERY rusty on some points. Advice VERY gratefully received

1/ Planning to do my 18th edition online. No real issue there I don't think
2/ Do I need 18th edition to be able to register with Stroma/Napit/NIC etc?
3/ Who is the recommended body to go with? Stroma looked good, but did I read that they are no longer accepting applicants? Many years back I was NICEIC (hated them!)

My testing and inspection is beyond rusty. I did the course, and then pretty much never did any testing.
I could probably barely remember how to turn the tester on these days (oh yea, need to buy a new one of those as well)...
That is going to be an issue and the only way I will pick that back up is practice I would think + reading up.

I would assume I will have to start up, get some installations under my belt and get them certified by someone else or building control, and then once I have a few to 'show', have those inspected when I apply to a body?

My old and tired brains thanks you
 

Dustydazzler

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If you want to do mainly domestic work then ultimately you will need to join one of cps scams , you can live without one by sticking to non notifiable work initially but sooner or later you will get asked to do board changes which require notification under part pee

its not worth going self deployed half hearted, you either go all in or I person ally wouldn’t bother and just get a job in Lidl instead
 

loz2754

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Which Competent Persons Scheme to go with?
NICEIC, as it is the most well known. Or Napit, as it's a bit cheaper.
Either way, you should make enquiries very soon as to what entry requirements are, as from September 1st it gets a lot harder to be accepted into a scheme due to changes in the Electrotechnical Assessment Specification.
 
OP
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Electrotechnical Assessment Specification?? ? What the heck is that

WHY do they keep making up this stuff? Just makes it hard those that do it properly (or at least try to), and makes no difference at all to the people that don't care.

The only works notifiable in England are: a new circuit, a consumer unit change, additions or alterations in a bathroom.

Yes, that is on domestic properties. What about commercial and industrial. I read a thread where they said that they worked in an industrial setting and the factory electrician was basically doing what he wanted with no certification. I thought the additions, DB changes etc applied to all settings?

I'm rusty...
 

loz2754

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Electrotechnical Assessment Specification?? ? What the heck is that

WHY do they keep making up this stuff? Just makes it hard those that do it properly (or at least try to), and makes no difference at all to the people that don't care.



Yes, that is on domestic properties. What about commercial and industrial. I read a thread where they said that they worked in an industrial setting and the factory electrician was basically doing what he wanted with no certification. I thought the additions, DB changes etc applied to all settings?

I'm rusty...
Part P is only applicable to domestic dwellings
 

Julie.

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The standards that must be attained are the same in all cases, however in England the building regs require notice of works, this is achieved through one of the scams - sorry I mean valuable CPS providers.

As for testing if rusty either get a tester, a copy of GN3 build yourself a bit of a test board (rings, radials etc) and go through the testing again and again until it al comes back (noting the changes in isolation procedures required since your qualifications) OR enrol on a testing course - around a weeks course, you will still need to practice etc, but it would focus the mind.

18th, etc, just buy the book and take the test.
 

cliffed

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Hello all.

Sparky all my days (but worked in a different industry the last 5 years). Full 17th edition, 2394 and 2395 Testing and inspection. ESC Gold card.

Covid has killed my existing job, and at 53, I am struggling to find something new.
So... do I go back to full time sparking? Ideally not, but means must.

But, I am VERY rusty on some points. Advice VERY gratefully received

1/ Planning to do my 18th edition online. No real issue there I don't think
2/ Do I need 18th edition to be able to register with Stroma/Napit/NIC etc?
3/ Who is the recommended body to go with? Stroma looked good, but did I read that they are no longer accepting applicants? Many years back I was NICEIC (hated them!)

My testing and inspection is beyond rusty. I did the course, and then pretty much never did any testing.
I could probably barely remember how to turn the tester on these days (oh yea, need to buy a new one of those as well)...
That is going to be an issue and the only way I will pick that back up is practice I would think + reading up.

I would assume I will have to start up, get some installations under my belt and get them certified by someone else or building control, and then once I have a few to 'show', have those inspected when I apply to a body?

My old and tired brains thanks you
That’s exactly how I feel…brain tired…I’ve just resigned from my QS job…lots of reasons for that.
ive always kept up to date with every aspect of electrical installation etc..getting more & more knowledge each day & @ W/E…too.
Put this into practice & nobody’s cares enough ..the draft Certs not filled out correctly or completely.Workmanship it’s not as it should be these days …getting ready for retirement I’m afraid.?
 

HappyHippyDad

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Hello all.

Sparky all my days (but worked in a different industry the last 5 years). Full 17th edition, 2394 and 2395 Testing and inspection. ESC Gold card.

Covid has killed my existing job, and at 53, I am struggling to find something new.
So... do I go back to full time sparking? Ideally not, but means must.

But, I am VERY rusty on some points. Advice VERY gratefully received

1/ Planning to do my 18th edition online. No real issue there I don't think
2/ Do I need 18th edition to be able to register with Stroma/Napit/NIC etc?
3/ Who is the recommended body to go with? Stroma looked good, but did I read that they are no longer accepting applicants? Many years back I was NICEIC (hated them!)

My testing and inspection is beyond rusty. I did the course, and then pretty much never did any testing.
I could probably barely remember how to turn the tester on these days (oh yea, need to buy a new one of those as well)...
That is going to be an issue and the only way I will pick that back up is practice I would think + reading up.

I would assume I will have to start up, get some installations under my belt and get them certified by someone else or building control, and then once I have a few to 'show', have those inspected when I apply to a body?

My old and tired brains thanks you
How did it go?
Did you get registered with a scheme?
Rather than get confused by all the different advice on a forum, I would ring either Napit, NICEIC or Elecsa (the only ones left) and ask them what they want.

If you plan just to do small domestic jobs then it may be best not to go through the hassle of getting registered with a scheme. However, if you plan to install consumer units, any new circuits, or any work in special locations (bathrooms), then you need to be registered, as these jobs are notifiable.
 
OP
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Hello All

Been a few months since I considered this and still not sure what I am going to do. Part of me is sick to death of hoop jumping for the sake of it. I occasionally work with a couple of electrician lads (who are very good), but 16th edition and don't test/certify zip. They seem to be plodding along nicely.

But, I am a 'do it properly' type person. But, you do just get worn down by all the constant rule changes and needless profit making.

But... mortgage isn't getting paid, so decisions must be made.
 
OP
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Just found this....


I didn't think you could take exams online at home? I like this idea much more than a classroom based exam I have to say. My days of nervous multiple choice exams in a classroom are over.

Anyone recommend a decent all-round tester? Mine is so old, it runs on coal
 

Julie.

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Just found this....


I didn't think you could take exams online at home? I like this idea much more than a classroom based exam I have to say. My days of nervous multiple choice exams in a classroom are over.

Anyone recommend a decent all-round tester? Mine is so old, it runs on coal
Since Covid they have started to allow exams at home, 18th is on-line in any case. It does cost a little more as they have to have someone at their end watching you for the whole exam (webcam is required) to make sure you only reference the allowed materials.

Any modern MFT should be ok, I prefer megger, but many others like Kewtech, Metrel etc. The more fancy you get, it's no more testing functionality, just add-ons like selecting the MCB type/size and it automatically gives you a pass/fail between the measured Zs and the allowed for that protective device etc - if you then buy their expensive software it can auto fill the EIC etc.

There are specialist ones which do have extra testing stuff such as for EVCP, but unless you go down that route it's just wasting beer tokens.


If they are still working to the 16th/17th then they are really open for court action - the 18th test isn't hard, and being realistic every industry today has to do further training as rules and regulations change, even if you drive a truck every day, you have to take CPD (continuous personnel development) to maintain your knowledge of rules etc as they change.
 
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OP
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Hey

Well I have been bashing some seriously heavy industrial electrical installation work lately through an agency (Covid killed my new career stone dead), but these heavy SWA's the diameter of my leg are starting to take their toll!
Plus, some of the guys I am working with ? Lets just say it seems to be a backwards life step.

So, I am probably aiming to go back to domestic installs. It's what I used to do. I am going to be totally honest, it's not my ideal career choice... I stopped it years back because it bored me (did it for 25 straight years), but.... like I said, my mortgage needs to be paid. Go back to what you are good at.

Will probably expand that to CCTV etc later on. Got lots of experience with networked CCTV and access control

I did my testing 2394 and 2395 about 5 years ago, and pretty much never put it into use. So I am VERY rusty on that. I am thinking get a decent tester, dig out the course notes, and give myself a refresher course on my own house.
Being watched by someone for assessment purposes fills me with fear!

I suppose Napit is as good as anyone to go with? £465+vat to register.
There is this whole paradox of how can I register with no work to assess thing? No sure how that works but OK.

I'll probably get myself a new regs book and site guide then and plump for the online 18th course. At 53, I just hate the classroom thing now.
 
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Hello all.

Sparky all my days (but worked in a different industry the last 5 years). Full 17th edition, 2394 and 2395 Testing and inspection. ESC Gold card.

Covid has killed my existing job, and at 53, I am struggling to find something new.
So... do I go back to full time sparking? Ideally not, but means must.

But, I am VERY rusty on some points. Advice VERY gratefully received

1/ Planning to do my 18th edition online. No real issue there I don't think
2/ Do I need 18th edition to be able to register with Stroma/Napit/NIC etc?
3/ Who is the recommended body to go with? Stroma looked good, but did I read that they are no longer accepting applicants? Many years back I was NICEIC (hated them!)

My testing and inspection is beyond rusty. I did the course, and then pretty much never did any testing.
I could probably barely remember how to turn the tester on these days (oh yea, need to buy a new one of those as well)...
That is going to be an issue and the only way I will pick that back up is practice I would think + reading up.

I would assume I will have to start up, get some installations under my belt and get them certified by someone else or building control, and then once I have a few to 'show', have those inspected when I apply to a body?

My old and tired brains thanks you
Think Positive - ignore the negative vibes and comments people throw your way. Definitely your first point of call is to 100 Percent get your 18th Edition - do this first before anything else, Fully Update your 18th Library Too! Regs Onsite Guide etc read them and familiarise the changes, and where to find things you need in the Regs Book. I really need to know more about your background in your electrical work really? Were you more commercial based? Trunking Conduit Trays & Armoureds etc or Domestic? Lacking experience in testing is a little of a issue, but surely you could get a tester and practice and get to grips with it, even in your own house. You need to fully understand how to carry out the process of all the tests you carry out, understand your R1s & R2s etc , as well as reading you will need to carry out these tests etc and you can experiment as well. Ive been self employed for nearly 12 Years, and never been in any "Body" , alot of my customers are on the commercial side and dont give a stuff about things like that - they know im competent . Ive corrected so much work, then on the back of that got even more work putting right what contractors (With all the usual Trust a Trader, Elesca, NICEIC van stickers etc etc) have done wrong! 4 Weeks ago i picked up a 3500 item PAT test, that was last performed by a NICEIC company that Passed a Stainless Steel Kitchen servery that the plug was welded into the socket!! - They had never even unplugged it! - + The Labels were utterly wrong, they left things they did fail in service!!!
 

Vortigern

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With your 2394/5 you must be able to test and it would just take a little "wd40" to get past being rusty at it. So if you did light commercial it would be well within your abilities and pays better with less hassle and easier work usually. Domestic, most agree its the proverbial PIA. You only need CPS for domestic, not commerical. As to work, NAPIT does accept work in your own home. They are about to inpsect my garage installation. Steel conduit/sockests/SWA from house to Sub Main. So I know they will accept that. You have a few weeks to notify so should be enough time to get your assessment and join to notify.
 
OP
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Hmm. My background was originally new house bashing for many years with my dad (since leaving school). Rewires etc... all the domestic stuff. NICEIC back then.
Then I did lots of commercial when I went on my own. Various units, shop refitting etc.
Spent 3 years working in a PetroChemical site in the northeast. Lots of lab refits, tray, conduit, basket etc
Lots of warehouse lighting installs etc.

But, last few years has been lots of very heavy industrial stuff - 400mm+ SWA's, big generator installs, control switching, control cabinets etc.

Pretty flexible on what I can do.

How can you trade then without being in a 'body'? Just commercial or someone else certifies I suppose.

I agree.... the public are a pain in the bottom. But, I thought work in that area might be easier to find than finding commercial with no leads.

My other thought was to do maybe looking at EV charge point installations. Strings to bow and all that.
 
OP
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What is the 18th exactly.... as in, what has changed?

You can do the 18th online for £130 + vat or the actual course + exam for £350+vat. It says the course is for people that don't necessarily have previous electrical knowledge!!!

I am more than likely going to plump for the £350 course anyway, but I'll be miffed it it turns out to be the idiots guide to wiring. I'm getting on, but not entirely lost it yet.

Just wondered if there was any details on what exactly has been changed to warrant the 18th update (apart from the usual money making side of it)

Thanks
 

Julie.

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What is the 18th exactly.... as in, what has changed?

You can do the 18th online for £130 + vat or the actual course + exam for £350+vat. It says the course is for people that don't necessarily have previous electrical knowledge!!!

I am more than likely going to plump for the £350 course anyway, but I'll be miffed it it turns out to be the idiots guide to wiring. I'm getting on, but not entirely lost it yet.

Just wondered if there was any details on what exactly has been changed to warrant the 18th update (apart from the usual money making side of it)

Thanks
There are lots of changes from older versions, but nothing in the format or principles, so if you could reference the regs in a previous version, you can do the same in this.

If you go to the city & guilds website, you can download two exam papers (along with answers) do both of them without looking at the answer sheets, you will need the regs book of course, but you will need it anyway.

There is a guy called sparky ninja on you tube, he has videos on the 18th edition changes, and a few on the 18th course itself.

Take a look at them before you buy a course. You could save yourself a lot of beer tokens if you don't need it.
 
OP
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Thanks. Already done that.... found some 18th edition exam papers and I will have a pop at them this weekend. If it's apparent I am too rusty, then I'll shout for the whole course.

Already an expensive restart anyway! 18th edition, Napit, new tester, test sheets, Public liability insurance, New regs book and site guide etc... Credit card taking a bashing ?
 

Reply to Starting up properly.... the expense and minefield of regs begins... in the Certification NICEIC, NAPIT, Stroma, BECSA Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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