Discuss Supplementary bonding in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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currie123

Hi, please can someone confirm whether lights and pull switches etc out with zones 0,1 and 2 in bathrooms require to be included in the supplementary bonding?

I understand the basics and in this instance only the new shower will be 30mA protected, the lights and down flow are out with the zones and will only be 100mA protected.

So is it acceptable to omit the lighting pullcord, light and down flow from the supplementary bonding or must they be bonded? I suspect to work to the regs they should be bonded but wanted to confirm this, any help appreciated
 

Strima

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Have the circuits not got their own CPC's and are they class 2 accessories?
 
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currie123

The lighting circuit and downflow heater both have their own cpc, it will just be a standard batten holder for light and from the osg I thought towel rails and the likes of a downflow heater supplied from a short flex can be omitted from supplementary bonding?
 

ruston

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You have to comply with 701.415.2 to omit supplementary bonding in a bathroom or room containing a shower in connection with reg 411.3.1.2 if main bonding is in place and the circuits are protected by a 30ma rcd supplementary bonding can be omitted.
 
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tony mc

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Does the room have extraneous conductive parts ?

If so each circuit in a bathroom regardless of which zone its in needs to be connected via the CPC to the extraneous parts.

This can be ommitted but not in this case as you have a 100mA RCD for the lights etc!
 
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currie123

Ok Ruston thanks so just supplementary bonding the equipment in zones0,1 and 2 together and leaving the light snd downflow out if the supplementary bonding is not enough? ie bonding the shower, sink pipes etc , sorry I have had my head in the regs, osg and 17th ed guidebook most of the night just want to clear this up in case I do a lot of unnecessary work
 
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currie123

Alright then my take on the regs was actually correct then, I just wanted to make sure. Plenty of 4mm earths to run tomorrow then
 

telectrix

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suerly, supplementary bonding is to do with extraneous pipework. accessories are earthed by means of the cpc in the cable supplying them. anything you fit in a bathroom/special location must 1. be earthed if it's classI, and 2. be RCD protected. once this has been done, then you come to deciding whether or not extraneous pipes etc. require supplementary bonding.
 

somersetsparks

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I believe that to satify the regs, the cpc's of all circuit and all exteraneous pipework etc. should be bonded together, unless the 3 conditions mentioned above are met. This is how I read it from an I&T point of view.
 

Guitarist

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Hi, please can someone confirm whether lights and pull switches etc out with zones 0,1 and 2 in bathrooms require to be included in the supplementary bonding?

I understand the basics and in this instance only the new shower will be 30mA protected, the lights and down flow are out with the zones and will only be 100mA protected.

So is it acceptable to omit the lighting pullcord, light and down flow from the supplementary bonding or must they be bonded? I suspect to work to the regs they should be bonded but wanted to confirm this, any help appreciated
You need to provide more information. Are you installing just the shower? Not sure why you are talking about zones with regard to supplementary bonding...
 
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currie123

Cheers for advice lads, I am adding in a new shower circuit to a bathroom, supplying from a newly fitted 2way 30mA protected board. All other circuits in bathroom are not being altered( these are a 1 way lighting pullcord and centre light, and a downflow fan heater,both in outside zones).

No supplementary bonding of the pipe work is currently present and the lights and downflow are only 100mA protected.

Obviously I am going to ensure water pipe and oil service pipe are bonded by way of 6mm earth wires as its a tt with 4mm earthing conductor( not buried) . Was trying to clarify if I had to supplementary bond all existing circuits I am not altering to the extraneous conductive parts ie pipe work etc
 
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currie123

I didn't believe the zones were relevant in relation to supplementary bonding, again I was looking to clarify this from some more experienced sparks
 

telectrix

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OK. you are fitting a shower. correctly protected by a 30mA RCD. that's it. the other circuits in the bathroom are not your concern. end of.
 
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currie123

Is it as simple as that tel? It can't be! It never is!? I am like for like changing the batten holder as it is u/s but that us the scope of my works aside from the shower circuit addition
 

telectrix

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so the like for like does not even require paperwork. honestly, you're over thinking the job. it's only what you install that needs to comply with current regs. obviously, you need to confirm earthing and main bonding is adequate, but that's it, mate.
 

Guitarist

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You should find that supplementary bonding is already in place for your pipework. It may be outside the room though, such as in an adjoining airing cupboard or loft space above the bathroom.
 
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currie123

Yes I wouldnt be writing out Mwc for like for like change, life has enough paperwork . Ok tel you are right there, I am quite newly self employed so yes potentially I am over thinking the job! thanks
 
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currie123

Yes guitarist there is some existing supplementary bonding now you mention it, in an airing cupboard you are right!
 

somersetsparks

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OK. you are fitting a shower. correctly protected by a 30mA RCD. that's it. the other circuits in the bathroom are not your concern. end of.
Are you sure tel?
One of my pet hates on I&T's!
Take for instance - a bathroom has no rcds but supplementary bonding in place, along comes sparks and fits shower etc. complete with 30ma protection (for shower only). But he has now introduced a C2 defect for the rest of the circuits, surely you have to consider the methods of protection already in place? (EEBADS)
 

Guitarist

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Yes guitarist there is some existing supplementary bonding now you mention it, in an airing cupboard you are right!
Problem solved then. Install shower circuit, test and EIC, get paid, go home knowing that you have improved someone's life :)
 

somersetsparks

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How does it introduce a C2 on existing instalation in the bathroom?
Because regs say that unless the 3 conditions can be met (main bonding, 30ma rcd protection to ALL circuits, meet disconnection times), circuits have to be supplementary bonded.

Therefore if you install a shower cct. with 30ma protection, you still have to supplementary bond it in order for the non-rcd protected circuits to comply
 

Guitarist

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"Good plan guitarist, sounds simple enough!"

Oh, forgot the most important bit...... Notify the job through your scheme provider :)
 

Guitarist

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Because regs say that unless the 3 conditions can be met (main bonding, 30ma rcd protection to ALL circuits, meet disconnection times), circuits have to be supplementary bonded.

Therefore if you install a shower cct. with 30ma protection, you still have to supplementary bond it in order for the non-rcd protected circuits to comply
You should find that if it is a copper supply pipe, then it is likely to be connected to the main water bonding anyway. If it is plastic, then it will not be an ECP. Either way, I'm not sure how it will make the other circuits in the bathroom more dangerous.
 

telectrix

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Because regs say that unless the 3 conditions can be met (main bonding, 30ma rcd protection to ALL circuits, meet disconnection times), circuits have to be supplementary bonded.

Therefore if you install a shower cct. with 30ma protection, you still have to supplementary bond it in order for the non-rcd protected circuits to comply
but you don't supplementary bond circuits. you bond extraneous metallic parts. therefore, you have a case inasmuch as any extraneous metallic parts in the bathroom may need supplementary bonding
 
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currie123

Pretty sure the supply water pipe will be copper, but the plumber hasn't put it in yet
 

somersetsparks

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But was it not the case that the cpc's of any circuits entering the special location should be bonded, under the 16th edition ammendment?
 
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currie123

Part pee not relevant up here, unless of course you are being ironic?!
 

Strima

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Pretty sure the supply water pipe will be copper, but the plumber hasn't put it in yet
You'll probably find he'll use plastic out of sight and copper for show with lots of push fits more good measure. You just have to IR test to see if it's extraneous or not.
 
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