Discuss supplying electric to decking and shed in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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W

welshman

hi, before i start i am not an electrician but i am looking for some advice from those who know!
i am looking to supply electric to my decking (for a few lights and a double socket) and then leading to my shed where i want a double socket.
the decking is about 5 metres away from the fuse box, to get there i have to pipe it under concrete. then from the decking to the shed is about 5 metres which will be run under soil. i am looking for any advice anyone can give me on what cables/conduits to use
many thanks
 
Option 1
4mm swa from house to shed protected by a 32amp rcbo at house.
In shed terminate swa into metal clad socket, feed on to a fused spur (change fuse to 3amp) & from fused spur to lights.

Option 2
4 or 6mm swa from house to shed protected by a 32amp rcbo at house.
In shed terminate swa into insulated box, Install small consumer unit with earth rod, 1x 16amp mcb for socket & 1x 6amp mcb for lights.

Option 3
Call an electrician.

Part P notification required !
 
Option 1
4mm swa from house to shed protected by a 32amp rcbo at house.
In shed terminate swa into metal clad socket, feed on to a fused spur (change fuse to 3amp) & from fused spur to lights.

Option 2
4 or 6mm swa from house to shed protected by a 32amp rcbo at house.
In shed terminate swa into insulated box, Install small consumer unit with earth rod, 1x 16amp mcb for socket & 1x 6amp mcb for lights.

Option 3
Call an electrician.

Part P notification required !

And WHY pray would you need to rod this shed???

Quite amazes me, just how quick some electricians will bung rods in, when there is absolutly no need to do so!!!
 
And WHY pray would you need to rod this shed???

Quite amazes me, just how quick some electricians will bung rods in, when there is absolutly no need to do so!!!

Because thats how I was taught do outbuildings & thats how I do outbuildings.
Nothing wrong with a rod in my book & like wise I have no objection to you exporting the suppliers earth if you wish.

Horses for courses:rolleyes:
 
For a start i don't export anything, ...if anything, ....i extend!!!

Nothing to do with ''horses for courses'' This is all about roding anything outside of the main house. Who on earth taught you to do that?? ....Why would you ditch a superior earthing system for one that is of the lowest level in a domestic installation??? You didn't even know from the OPs post, if the earthing arrangement was TN-S or PME, so i guess it doesn't matter to you what the earthing system is, ...you'll rod it anyway!!!

A thought for you, ...during the early sixties through to the eighties the local leccy boards spent millions upon millions converting domestic and commercial TT areas to PME, and it still carries on today, albeit at a much reduced pace. Why do you think they would spend all that money, and invest all that time on doing all that work???

One things for sure, they didn't count on future electricians converting parts of it back to TT!! lol!!!
 
And WHY pray would you need to rod this shed???

Quite amazes me, just how quick some electricians will bung rods in, when there is absolutly no need to do so!!!

Not to mention the extra expense of that mini CU. Completely un-necessary and failing to provide the client with a cost effective solution to his needs.

A 16 or 20A radial (RCD'd of course, so perhaps an RCBO) with 2.5mm 3 core swa. Terminate at first socket, site an outdoor FCU next to it then continue the swa to the shed socket. The decking lights can be controlled from the fcu directly. You could even just plug the lights into the socket to save on the fcu.

Keep it simple and cost effective.

OP, this concrete you say you have to go under - is it already there or are you laying it over the cable? Nothing wrong with surface mounting swa and it is suitable for direct burial in concrete.
 
For a start i don't export anything, ...if anything, ....i extend!!!

Nothing to do with ''horses for courses'' This is all about roding anything outside of the main house. Who on earth taught you to do that?? ....Why would you ditch a superior earthing system for one that is of the lowest level in a domestic installation??? You didn't even know from the OPs post, if the earthing arrangement was TN-S or PME, so i guess it doesn't matter to you what the earthing system is, ...you'll rod it anyway!!!

A thought for you, ...during the early sixties through to the eighties the local leccy boards spent millions upon millions converting domestic and commercial TT areas to PME, and it still carries on today, albeit at a much reduced pace. Why do you think they would spend all that money, and invest all that time on doing all that work???

One things for sure, they didn't count on future electricians converting parts of it back to TT!! lol!!!

So I gater old mate the rod idea is not your chosen weapon then ...........................
 
Absolutely Nothing wrong with a well designed and installed TT system, but i think we both know that ain't gonna happen in any domestic installation in the UK. What they'll get, is probably a short 1.2m thin 3/8'' rod, bunged in the ground willy nilly and in the worst locations possible, and will totally rely on a RCD device, for the rest of it's days!!!

A good TT system costs money, and an installer that knows what he's doing. A fair amount of time is going to be involved, which will depend on the type of soil your dealing with. So to my mind, it's best to think of a domestic TT system being your very last choice, certainly not your first ...And certainly not to replace a superior all round system ...lol!!!
 
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however, his suggestions are still fine and would do the job, simply stating it is a no no because its not the way you would do it does not make him wrong and you right just another option.



What they'll get, is probably a short 1.2m thin 3/8'' rod, bunged in the ground willy nilly and in the worst locations possible, and will totally rely on a RCD device
assume by that comment you know or are aware of the persons competence in carrying out the work?
 
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however, his suggestions are still fine and would do the job, simply stating it is a no no because its not the way you would do it does not make him wrong and you right just another option.

assume by that comment you know or are aware of the persons competence in carrying out the work?

Come on ezzzekiel, ditching a sound TN-S earthing system in favour of a rod?? Do you really consider that as a valid option in this case??

Well i might have been a little over flippant, but from what i've been seeing and hearing on various UK forums. Especially when guys have shown pictures of these rod installs, 9 out of 10 of them positioned next to the dwelling walls, and all pencil thin rods!! It certainly leaves an impression that's the general trend of installing a roded system these days in the UK.

I don't know what your thoughts on this matter are, but what sort of protection do you think a single 3/8'' 1.2m rod is going to bring to any electrical installation??
Even more so, when you consider that the first 600mm or more of the rod is rendered practically useless in freezing or dry periods throughout the year...
 
dont misunderstand me, i tend to agree with everything you said and your reasons for saying it, just dont think that alternative methods should be dismissed purely because its not our prefered method (unless of course they are incorrect)
 
OP, this concrete you say you have to go under - is it already there or are you laying it over the cable? Nothing wrong with surface mounting swa and it is suitable for direct burial in concrete.

not a good idea , concrete never sets and is always moving, after a couple of years the armour cable will start shredding the insulation due to this movement
 
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not a good idea , concrete never sets and is always moving, after a couple of years the armour cable will start shredding the insulation due to this movement

Are you sure you will get that much movement on a lump of concrete to shred SWA insulation. I have seen cable just layed on rough ground and when the concrete was poured stones damaged it, and over the years it had broken down to moisture, but that was damaged done in the first pour, not in subsequent movement. That is a suprise that you would get that much movement.
 
Are you sure you will get that much movement on a lump of concrete to shred SWA insulation. I have seen cable just layed on rough ground and when the concrete was poured stones damaged it, and over the years it had broken down to moisture, but that was damaged done in the first pour, not in subsequent movement. That is a suprise that you would get that much movement.

the concrete does shred it
 
I can assure you that concrete does set, The only movement you'll find in any concrete slab, is from expansion and contraction. As the whole section of slab will expand and contract at the same rate, the only damage to any cable, would be where it enters or exits that section of slab. That's why we have flexible /sliding joints in conduit/trunking/tray-work etc, across concrete slab expansion joints!!! Concrete does take a fair old time to reach it's full strength though, 70ish years so i'm told!! lol!!!
 
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