Discuss synchronisation of storage heaters and Economy 7 supply timings. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I wouldn't opt for a smart meter. I too use economy 7 and if I get a smart meter the economy 7 equivalent i will be given is terrible, 9p pew kwh off peak, 18p per kwh normal and 35p per kwh "Peak" (between 5pm - 7pm)

currently i have 9p off peak and 18p peak
So check with your electricity supply what they plan to-do

I keep getting contacted trying to get me to have one, they say 'but you will be able to see in real time your usage', I said i can do that now there is numbers on the front of my meter and a kwh flashing light, I also said i think it is so you can figure out at which times I used the most amount of electricity and charge me accordingly to your benift

Perhaps smart meters my help the people controlling the grid, But i am getting one as late as i can
Thanks, they're doing the same to me - but i can't even see the meter before or after. Saves them a fortune on meter readers of course.
 
Dont be reliant on the "smart meter can be used to turn off the power remotely"

Thats a load of tosh.

Yes, it may be possible, but they wont do it for the fear of turning off someones home dialysis machine, or some other essential medical equipment.

They may however do it to a property that has been empty for some time, or is used as a weed garden
 
Turning off remotely is possible but I don't believe the current legislation allows for it.

What is in the early planning stage is Smart Meter gen 3, where they will be able to turn off or just reduce the consumption of new generation high energy use appliances in the house like Heat Pumps and not so essential appliances.
They're going to have to agree a common comms system between appliances and Meter so don't hold out any chance of it coming in this Millenium.
 
As mentioned, cut off of supply is not allowed, however the smart meter would be changed to PP mode,thus the meter still being energized that is just 1 example, theft of electricity is another matter.
 
Had multiple bills/final demands/ threatening fake solicitors letters plus a visit in person from someone claiming to be from said fake solicitors. Still took two years to get the attention of someone intelligent in the organisation.
 
Had multiple bills/final demands/ threatening fake solicitors letters plus a visit in person from someone claiming to be from said fake solicitors. Still took two years to get the attention of someone intelligent in the organisation.
Without knowing the full story or your situation, cant really comment.

I would never let that go on for so long.
 
Long story short. They made a mistake, multiple messages to call centre, no progress, never the same person twice, so even when a small amount of progress had been made, it reset to the beginning again. Stopped paying them to get their attention.
Never thought it would go on for two years+ myself.
 
I had a situation years ago with my gas supply... a fraudster switched my gas supply to a new company, who starting billing me based on estimated readings. I was still paying the existing supplier who had no idea of any switch... Took several years to sort out, despite umpteen letters/emails/phone calls.
 
As above, it sounds like the time switch is at the wrong time, they have battery's to keep them working during power cuts but batteries can fail. Time switches should be set to GMT. You should be able to check the time setting by looking at the front of the time switch, post a close up pic if you are having difficulty reading it.
hallo again - i have now managed to get pics of (1) my meter and (2) its immediate surroundings.
First point. My meter is no 42 and the timer switch can be seen alonside it. As i suspected it seems to indicate that the Economy 7 night rate is not from 11.30 to 6.30 as the supplier claims. Any observations would be welcome.
Second point, the meter is showing a reading of 86546 with a small black square above it. Does this tell you whether it is the day or the night rate? Or is there some other way this can be established from the pic?
Third point, an engineer from the predominant supplier to this block of about fifty flats is reported as saying that it is not pratically possible to install smart meters here because there are several meter cupboards in different parts of the building. Does this seem plausible?
 

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Sounds like the timing is out of synch, but that can work to your advantage, because the whole installation will be on off peak too, as advised a pic of the set up please.
hallo again - i have now managed to get pics of (1) my meter and (2) its immediate surroundings.
First point. My meter is no 42 and the timer switch can be seen alonside it. As i suspected it seems to indicate that the Economy 7 night rate is not from 11.30 to 6.30 as the supplier claims. Any observations would be welcome.
Second point, the meter is showing a reading of 86546 with a small black square above it. Does this tell you whether it is the day or the night rate? Or is there some other way this can be established from the pic?
Third point, an engineer from the predominant supplier to this block of about fifty flats is reported as saying that it is not pratically possible to install smart meters here because there are several meter cupboards in different parts of the building. Does this seem plausible?
 

Attachments

  • synchronisation of storage heaters and Economy 7 supply timings. my meter 120121 - EletriciansForums.net
    my meter 120121.jpg
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  • synchronisation of storage heaters and Economy 7 supply timings. meter cupboard 120121 - EletriciansForums.net
    meter cupboard 120121.jpg
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Storage heaters are normally switched by the supply authority timeswitch, which will change the tariff over at the same time. If your heaters are still live at 8.30 it is possible the timeswitch is out, but nevertheless the tariff will still switch over with the heaters, so it doesnt make any difference.
A pic of the meter setup would clarify.
hallo again - i have now managed to get pics of (1) my meter and (2) its immediate surroundings.
First point. My meter is no 42 and the timer switch can be seen alonside it. As i suspected it seems to indicate that the Economy 7 night rate is not from 11.30 to 6.30 as the supplier claims. Any observations would be welcome.
Second point, the meter is showing a reading of 86546 with a small black square above it. Does this tell you whether it is the day or the night rate? Or is there some other way this can be established from the pic?
Third point, an engineer from the predominant supplier to this block of about fifty flats is reported as saying that it is not pratically possible to install smart meters here because there are several meter cupboards in different parts of the building. Does this seem plausible?
 

Attachments

  • synchronisation of storage heaters and Economy 7 supply timings. my meter 120121 - EletriciansForums.net
    my meter 120121.jpg
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  • synchronisation of storage heaters and Economy 7 supply timings. meter cupboard 120121 - EletriciansForums.net
    meter cupboard 120121.jpg
    322.4 KB · Views: 11
What time did you take the photo?
The Sangamo clock is showing the current time as around 9 am.

Looks to be set to ON at 12.30 am OFF at 7.30 am
Ignore the second ON peg and the second OFF peg , they won't have any effect on switching.

If I remember from when Sangamo clocks were more widely used the time was normally set to GMT + 1/2hr / BST -1/2 hr so they didn't have to be adjusted for Summer time.

2 rate meters normally display the reading for the current rate

Re Smart Meters, Eventually truelly Smart Meters, not the incorrectly named things they're using now, will be the only option.
The issue with flats and other similar large buildings is the Customer In Home Display won't connect to the meter, the signal gets blocked.
Using a wired link is not practical for existing installations so they'll have to come up with a solution, which I'm sure they will, maybe not in this Millenium tho.
 
Last edited:
Thank you very much for your help. First point, I didn't take the photo but our housekeeper did so can't be sure of the exact time but would bet it was 10 rather than 9 as i now have a indicator light on the storage heater switch in the flat and it actually goes off at 8.30 - not the 6.30 claimed by the supplier or the 7.30 seemingly according to the timer.

Second point, and this is complicated, the figures on the meter are given on my bill as the day rate. I have now been here a year and after being suspicious of the amount of the bill stopped using the storage heater and reverted to using individual heaters during the day. And what happened? The NIGHT rate numbers DOUBLED and the DAY rate numbers HALVED. So clearly somewhere there the allocations are being switched. I will try and check further which figures our house manager was looking at when she took the pic. But how is this done? - Is there a switch or something on the meter that changes the numbers appearing in the frame from day rate to night rate? or is more complex than that? And if the figures are appearing accurately on the meter where is the fault occurring?

Third point, your point about the complex wiring necessary for IHDs in a block of flats where there are several different meter cupboards makes everything much clearer. So what it means, in effect, is IF the supplier is not providing an internet service so you can look up your usage there is little point in getting a smart meter. Yes?

Again, many thanks, keith
 
Is there a figure in the little black box above the first '8' in he pic. of your meter. If there is, this will be the rate you are being charged at that time, and the numbers in the display might be the total used at that rate, or possibly the total used to date on both rates.
Have another look at the meter early in the morning and see if the black box shows a different number. If the total shown on the display is completely different from that shown during the day, then it will be displaying the total for the night rate. If it is just a few on from the total shown in the pic., then it's displaying the total used for both rates. Cross reference these readings with your bill.
I strongly recommend that everyone reads and keeps a record of their meter readings every couple of months at least. Over the last two decades I've been billed with readings from a meter that had been changed four years before, and on another occasion, had all readings ignored (both read by me and official meter readers) because my meter had six digits and the suppliers records said it had five.
Note that if they find that they have been under charging you, and no fraud involved, then they can only claim the outstanding amount for the last 12 months.
One of my customers has been informing their supplier that they are being undercharged for several years, without action on their part. The supplier has now admitted that they are at fault, and the amount undercharged is about £20,000, but my customer is only liable for about £3000. Note their 'correct' bill is some £5000 a
 
I don't believe you can change the displayed reading on those meters manually.
They take the readings by use of a handset.
It may cycle through all the readings for a short while then return to current rate.

The Daytime rate should have a 1 over the first number and Off Peak would be 2.
Total through the meter would most likely be T.

To me the displayed number doesn't look like 1, more like 2 suggesting it was at the time recording the Off Peak useage.
 
Is there a figure in the little black box above the first '8' in he pic. of your meter. If there is, this will be the rate you are being charged at that time, and the numbers in the display might be the total used at that rate, or possibly the total used to date on both rates.
Have another look at the meter early in the morning and see if the black box shows a different number. If the total shown on the display is completely different from that shown during the day, then it will be displaying the total for the night rate. If it is just a few on from the total shown in the pic., then it's displaying the total used for both rates. Cross reference these readings with your bill.
I strongly recommend that everyone reads and keeps a record of their meter readings every couple of months at least. Over the last two decades I've been billed with readings from a meter that had been changed four years before, and on another occasion, had all readings ignored (both read by me and official meter readers) because my meter had six digits and the suppliers records said it had five.
Note that if they find that they have been under charging you, and no fraud involved, then they can only claim the outstanding amount for the last 12 months.
One of my customers has been informing their supplier that they are being undercharged for several years, without action on their part. The supplier has now admitted that they are at fault, and the amount undercharged is about £20,000, but my customer is only liable for about £3000. Note their 'correct' bill is some £5000 a
thanks very much brian for all your help
 

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