Testing advice

[UNG]

Officially written down somewhere will be the criteria needed to carry out testing, just copy it out and send it to the LL and anyone else that may be interested?

However BS7671, guidance note 3: page 12 section 1.2 does say :
it is worth noting that the person responsible for inspection and testing may be required to formally demonstrate competence by means of registration /certification under a recognised scheme or membership of a recognised trade body, or for example as a condition of contract and/or as a requirement of the Local Area Building Control.

If the landlord insists that you need to be registered that's the end of it I am afraid, even though they may be wrong technically, BS7671 is on their side.

My understanding is the guidance notes form no part of BS7671 they are merely written as a guide to support the requirements of BS7671

 

[Lister1987]

Do you have the clients(s) details that he has contacted, if so it's a simple email stating the terms of any prior contracts, the absence of any clause to be CPS registered and provision of your qualifications.

Contact them directly, put your defence over and leave them to it. The clients that think the LL is a knob will stay and the ones that would rather trust a nonelectrician over a qualified one are just prime candidates for Darwin.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My understanding is the guidance notes form no part of BS7671 they are merely written as a guide to support the requirements of BS7671

Why stop there, BS7671 is not a statutory instrument so does not form part of the Regulations.

 

[Lister1987]

Why stop there, BS7671 is not even a statutory instrument so does not form part of the Regulations.

Turn it back on the LL, if you are as bad as they want others to believe them THEY have breached regulations 3 (duties), 4 (systems of work) and 16 (Competency) A polite reminder of thier obligations under EAWR as a shot across the bow

 

[UNG]

Why stop there, BS7671 is not even a statutory instrument so does not form part of the Regulations.

There you go yet AGAIN

 

[Lister1987]

Why stop there, BS7671 is non-statutory instrument unlike EAWR & HASAWA

Fixed that for you.

 

[Vortigern]

I would take a consultation with a suitably experienced solicitor. Ask the law society about which solicitors deal with libel cases. In the case of someone impugning professional standing there is no need to prove special damages. But most certainly I would be taking action in the form of a libel suit, seeking damages for lost contracts and loss of professional standing. Should have gone to NICEIC.

 

[i=p/u]

 

[joelee131]

The landlord do have a right to request their tenant to use any electrician that may or must belongs to so and so body, since they own the properties. Without reading the letting contract, you don't know if the landlord have what rights, from my own experience, it's only reasonable for the landlord to make such request. I don't know what you can do legal wise apart from may be slander, that is a very slippery slope. If you have a good client base, why don't join any goverment endorsed body? That will be a long term benefit.

 

[UNG]

If you have a good client base, why don't join any goverment endorsed body? That will be a long term benefit.

Could it be some people can't lower their standards to meet the requirements
When you look at some of the EICR's posted on here that have been conducted by people assessed as competent by these UKAS endorsed companies why would you want to join.
The NICEIC today is an embarrassment to what it was 25 - 30 years ago

 

[joelee131]

Could it be some people can't lower their standards to meet the requirements
When you look at some of the EICR's posted on here that have been conducted by people assessed as competent by these UKAS endorsed companies why would you want to join.
The NICEIC today is an embarrassment to what it was 25 - 30 years ago

As with many professions, there are always contractors have no concept what high standards mean, it does not mean you need to be part of the group. I myself many times cross fire with the NIC inspector on the way they conduct the inspection. From the stand point of the client what choice do they have from choosing a qualify electrician that they think is compentant to carry out the work, it's not ideal but at least there are some place the client can file any complaint. Mind you, NIC is getting more expensive to be a member.

 

[UNG]

it's not ideal but at least there are some place the client can file any complaint.

Really!!! I'm not sure the whole NICEIC complaint file is more than a handful lines on an A4 sheet
Known quite a few try to complain and got nowhere
The only successful complaint I know of involved a forum member and it was only when the infamous Tony Cable was railroaded with an audience on the NICEIC stand at one of the Elex shows did the NICEIC do something probably to avoid the public fall out if they didn't

 

[joelee131]

Really!!! I'm not sure the whole NICEIC complaint file is more than a handful lines on an A4 sheet
Known quite a few try to complain and got nowhere
The only successful complaint I know of involved a forum member and it was only when the infamous Tony Cable was railroaded with an audience on the NICEIC stand at one of the Elex shows did the NICEIC do something probably to avoid the public fall out if they didn't

I guess your experience with NIC have exceeded your patience. To my understanding, NIC is not on the contractors' side, they are always on the consumer side, but they are taking money from the contractors. How well the NIC is run, that's a different issue. I am not defending any 'Body' like NIC. From my personal experience, all the facility manager will always ask 'are you register with NIC' before they consider giving you the work. If you try to explain to them there is no legal requirement to do so, they will think you have something to hide.

 

[Lister1987]

I guess your experience with NIC have exceeded your patience. To my understanding, NIC is not on the contractors' side, they are always on the consumer side, but they are taking money from the contractors. How well the NIC is run, that's a different issue. I am not defending any 'Body' like NIC. From my personal experience, all the facility manager will always ask 'are you register with NIC' before they consider giving you the work. If you try to explain to them there is no legal requirement to do so, they will think you have something to hide.

Some would argue otherwise, especially if you've been through their complaints procedure. If the customer won't allow the original contractor back to rectify under the NICEIC Platinum Promise (?), then the NICEIC won't do anything, they don't take into account the fact that the customer may of had such a bad experience, that they don't want the tradesperson back in thier home, which can be understandable. What NICEIC should do is get a 3rd party contractor to go and inspect and fix; peers reviewing peers. If this independent is of the same conclusion as the customer then NICEIC bill the spark at fault for the 3rd party putting it right.

 

[UNG]

I guess your experience with NIC have exceeded your patience. To my understanding, NIC is not on the contractors' side, they are always on the consumer side, but they are taking money from the contractors. How well the NIC is run, that's a different issue. I am not defending any 'Body' like NIC. From my personal experience, all the facility manager will always ask 'are you register with NIC' before they consider giving you the work. If you try to explain to them there is no legal requirement to do so, they will think you have something to hide.

The customer invariably gives up on the complaint because the technicalities of what may be wrong is beyond their understanding and ability to explain the problem and a contractor / electrician can't raise a complaint on the customers behalf because the NICEIC will not accept it bit of a catch 22 which is why I researched the CPS structure a little while ago and came up with UKAS as the next body up the chain to lodge a complaint with
May be you handle facilities managers, insurance companies etc different to me but if I want the work I can in the vast amount of cases talk them round to giving me the work based on my qualifications, knowledge and experience and also if needed pointing them at sites such as this and similar sites all of which show that NIC approval does not necessarily guarantee the quality of the work carried out

 

[joelee131]

Some would argue otherwise, especially if you've been through their complaints procedure. If the customer won't allow the original contractor back to rectify under the NICEIC Platinum Promise (?), then the NICEIC won't do anything, they don't take into account the fact that the customer may of had such a bad experience, that they don't want the tradesperson back in thier home, which can be understandable. What NICEIC should do is get a 3rd party contractor to go and inspect and fix; peers reviewing peers. If this independent is of the same conclusion as the customer then NICEIC bill the spark at fault for the 3rd party putting it right.

From my own personal experience, a lot of the complains (leaving out the quality or work out the equation) is a mis-understanding between the 2 parties, apart from any service call out which I always let the customer know the call out charges upfront. Any other work especially trouble shoot. A formal written quotation in a broken down format for the work is highly recommended, this will ensure both parties know where they stand; the client will know how much it will cost them and the contractors will specify what are the deliverables for the charge, anything outside the remit of the quote will incur additional cost. I have never had any problem with my clients, the only complain I have is they think my price is too high.

 

[joelee131]

The customer invariably gives up on the complaint because the technicalities of what may be wrong is beyond their understanding and ability to explain the problem and a contractor / electrician can't raise a complaint on the customers behalf because the NICEIC will not accept it bit of a catch 22 which is why I researched the CPS structure a little while ago and came up with UKAS as the next body up the chain to lodge a complaint with
May be you handle facilities managers, insurance companies etc different to me but if I want the work I can in the vast amount of cases talk them round to giving me the work based on my qualifications, knowledge and experience and also if needed pointing them at sites such as this and similar sites all of which show that NIC approval does not necessarily guarantee the quality of the work carried out

I can see your point from the standpoint of the customer, it will be difficult for a standard consumer to make a complaint on technical ground. You must have a very good clientele to be persuaded that easily. To me, the challenge is not the installation or fault finding, they are pretty static, dealing with people is the real challenge, especially if you are not on the same page, it requires a lot of diplomacy.

 

[UNG]

I can see your point from the standpoint of the customer, it will be difficult for a standard consumer to make a complaint on technical ground. You must have a very good clientele to be persuaded that easily. To me, the challenge is not the installation or fault finding, they are pretty static, dealing with people is the real challenge, especially if you are not on the same page, it requires a lot of diplomacy.

A lot of the work I do is by word of mouth some of the people I have been doing work for in excess of 30 years and when it crops up that an insurance company or some other body wants an EICR by an NIC company the client will argue the case for using me and in some cases I will also speak to the insurance company on the clients behalf it is very rare that they don't accept my documents in fact the company that didn't lost my customers business a few months later because of it