Testing (part P required??)

[benwill87]

Hi all. I have my 2391, but does this still not mean i can test and certify a domestic dwelling without having part P?
Or if the work is carried out by someone who has part P, would this then be okay for me to test and sign it off?

 

[Guest123]

Hi there.

You would need to be a member of a Part P approved scheme i.e NIC, Elecsa, Napit etcetc, in order to self certify and register the work carried out with the relevant building control body.

If not then Building control would need to be informed before work starts and would come out and view the progress of the job and sign it off themselves at the end.

If the spark was already a member of a Part P scheme then he would not need you to test for him as he would do it himself.

Part P is not a qualification, it's a building regulation.

Hope this helps

 

[benwill87]

gotcha, cheers!

 

[EddieB]

I take it that before you are Part P registered you have to have an on site assesment (2 installs) and you are either rated as competent to install and knowledgeable enough as to why you are testing and what the tests prove or not.if not then I assume you go away practise a bit more and have another go.
if you hold a C&G 2391 surely that is way above the competence of the average Kitchen Fitter (no offense intended) who shuffles a few sockets about or maybe wires a new circuit back to the CU. If you hold a 2391 are you automatically registered as competent and only assesed in the 2nd year of your registration with whatever reconised body you pay your fees to? or are put into the same catergory as everybody else want's to register. I dont hold a 2391 myself so I've no axe to grind here but if you put the time and effort in on what is reconised as a pretty good qualification to have, surely you should be assumed to be able to certify yours and anybody elses work provided you join one of the reconised bodies

 

[Spudnik]

You can have every single qualification going for the electrical industry, but you will still be assessed exactly the same as everyone else.

You could after all, not know one end of a screwdriver from the other, regardless.

 

[benwill87]

How come you can get test certs from non recognised boddies? I have seen kewtech certs in the past and others floating around for sale on the internet, so where can these be used??
I am not very clued up on the whole legal side of things. The company I work for are nic registered and they fill out all the paperwork and so forth.
What im basically trying to find out is, how does my 2391 benefit me from another spark who hasnt got it?

 

[grumpy17]

AS i understand it anyone can reproduce a bs7671 form as long as it contains the same information as the bs7671 version you can slap whatever name you like on it.On the subject of 2391 qual as I have been told you are allowed to inspect and certify other peoples work rather than just work you have completed.e.g if building control sent out someone to inspect an installation that a householder had done he would have to be 2391 qualified.Unless ive been given duff info of course.

 

[Spudnik]

You ARE NOT allowed to test and notify other peoples work.

The 2391 is one way of proving competence in inspection and testing, if you were wanting to carry out PIR's.

 

[benwill87]

So these froms that are not recognised are best used for PIR's and not EIC's? As they wouldnt ce covered by the part P

 

[Spudnik]

PIR forms are different from EIC's.

 

[grumpy17]

I stand corrected then.Im curious to know what an inspector from labc does then when he comes and inspects your work.Surely (no jokes please) if he inspects it and its ok he must pass some kind of cert or whats the point of doing it.

 

[benwill87]

What Im trying to say is that when testing a domestic installation, you need to use a scheme that is covered by Part p, ie nappit niceic. But these test certs that you can buy without being part of a scheme, where can you use these?

 

[Spudnik]

OK.

Anyone, can carry out PIR's, regardless of qualifications and you dont even have to belong to a scheme. However, its advisable to have good PL and PI insurances in place.

However, its not very often that a client will accept a blank headed form.

LABC take on the responsibility of the installation if the installer is not registered etc. They decide if they are going to instruct someone to inspect and test throughout the course of the installation. If so, once the cert is submitted to them, they then issue completion cert to the client.

Im afraid its one rule for them and one for us.

 

[grumpy17]

I would be surprised if you were a member of elcsa for instance that they would be ok with you using forms fron napit or the niciec, but if you used downloaded forms from the IET without a name on them and put your part p name on it.whoever you wish to join then they could be used anywhere.Provided they were appropriate for the job in question of course.I assume your asking bacause of the outrageous cost of forms from scheme providers.

 

[EddieB]

Who is deemed competent to test other peoples work, if not a persoin who has test and inspect qualifications

 

[Spudnik]

Eddie,

The 2391 is a way of proving competence in inspection and testing.

Now, we all know how true that is, considering how difficult it is to pass it.

However, one is seen as not competent if this qualification is not held.

 

[benwill87]

exactly grumpy

 

[grumpy17]

Thanks for clearing that up Jason.So basically the guy from labc may not be as qualified as the bloke who installed it,(a rare case im sure. But because hes holding the microphone so to speak he can decide whether its good enough or not.Pays to be in a scheme to save all the hassle which I guess is the idea anyway.

 

[Spudnik]

Elecsa do not insist you use their forms.

However, they make them freely available to DL with serial numbers in the members section of the website.

I cant speak for the others though.

Maybe some others can.

Thanks for clearing that up Jason.So basically the guy from labc may not be as qualified as the bloke who installed it,(a rare case im sure. But because hes holding the microphone so to speak he can decide whether its good enough or not.Pays to be in a scheme to save all the hassle which I guess is the idea anyway.

Yes as they will instrcut a company to carry out the testing and certification of an un-registered installers work if they decide it needs it. The onus is on LABC.