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GreenServeUK

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does anybody here have an idea about thermodynamic solar panels?
 
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Gavin A

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Arms
yep. Though we've not installed them yet, and I'm not entirely sure the finances stack up for them without RHI.
 

Worcester

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Mentor
Arms
Looked at them, haven't done the ROI maths yet, like the fact that they generate heat in the night! Basically they aren't just solar panels, they are really an air source heat pump with a solar enhanced collector.
 

Gavin A

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Arms
Looked at them, haven't done the ROI maths yet, like the fact that they generate heat in the night! Basically they aren't just solar panels, they are really an air source heat pump with a solar enhanced collector.
agree - but in MCS's wisdom they're apparently classified as solar water heating for RHI and it's temp grant scheme purposes.
 
No one has yet been able to supply me with with verifiable real world performance data. I would like to to see fully monitored systems running somewhere like Sweden to back up all the claims being made. Until then it is all just puff. I think the stuff is made in Portugal where in a nice warm climate it probably works OK. If it is such a good idea, why has no one else done something similar?
 

Gavin A

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Arms
No one has yet been able to supply me with with verifiable real world performance data. I would like to to see fully monitored systems running somewhere like Sweden to back up all the claims being made. Until then it is all just puff. I think the stuff is made in Portugal where in a nice warm climate it probably works OK. If it is such a good idea, why has no one else done something similar?
patents I assume.

ENERGIE holds exclusively the patent for this product and is world leader in the manufacture of thermodynamic solar panels.
We are present in more than 29 countries across four continents.
There's no reason at all why this shouldn't work, although I do share your scepticism about some of the COP claims, though tbf the COP for ASHP's suffers more at lower temperatures mainly because of the need to use resistive heating to defrost the units to prevent them freezing up, something that's less of an issue for a part of the system with no moving parts as is the case the these panels.
 
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solarfred

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  • #9
When I checked the testing information the laboratory was in the Far East. I cannot see why a company in Portugal would have testing done in Taiwan and then manufacture in Portugal? The Chinese make lots self contained heat pump units. People are being duped if they think they are made in EU.
Energie have been flogging these units in Ireland for a while but not one person has come back with any data from an actual domestic set up.
 

Gavin A

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Arms
When I checked the testing information the laboratory was in the Far East. I cannot see why a company in Portugal would have testing done in Taiwan and then manufacture in Portugal? The Chinese make lots self contained heat pump units. People are being duped if they think they are made in EU.
Energie have been flogging these units in Ireland for a while but not one person has come back with any data from an actual domestic set up.
I'm thinking about seeing if we can rig up a test unit somewhere and monitor it properly. I've got monitoring kit I could remove from our solar water heating system, as I think after 4 years I know that works now.
 
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Solluva

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
These are put over as some revolutionary technology. But are they?
Can someone explain how they differ from air sourced heat pumps.
 

Gavin A

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Arms
they use the same principle, but a passive heat collection method instead of active - ie they don't have a fan to suck air across a small heat collector, they have a big heat collector to collect heat as the wind naturally moves the air across it, as well as collecting energy from sunlight directly when it's available.

they also have the advantage of being suitable for north facing roofs (possibly IMO even more suited for them than south facing, as I reckon south facing would be more prone to summer overheating), so are ideal partners for solar PV in that they're not competing for the same roof space.

I seem to be talking myself into these now.
 

Gavin A

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Arms
thing is, they're always going to be more efficient than ASHP or GSHP as they only need a tiny pump to pump the fluid around on top of the compressor, whereas an ASHP has to run a sodding great fan, and the GSHP has to run a much bigger pump.

So higher COP's for the same input temps are to be expected (bearing in mind these are relatively low power units anyway), and they will have the significant advantage of gathering direct solar heat as well as heat from the air which will also significantly boost their average COP (not so much for winter use if on a north roof obviously).

So the figures are very high, but there are logical reasons for why they also might possibly be accurate.
 
Gavin
What would you envisage using this equipment for?
My only interest is in the possibility of space heating, especially in off grid areas. I would envisage use in conjunction with a thermal store. Hence the reason for wanting substantiated performance data from more northerly latitudes.
 
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