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yep. Though we've not installed them yet, and I'm not entirely sure the finances stack up for them without RHI.
 
Looked at them, haven't done the ROI maths yet, like the fact that they generate heat in the night! Basically they aren't just solar panels, they are really an air source heat pump with a solar enhanced collector.
 
Looked at them, haven't done the ROI maths yet, like the fact that they generate heat in the night! Basically they aren't just solar panels, they are really an air source heat pump with a solar enhanced collector.
agree - but in MCS's wisdom they're apparently classified as solar water heating for RHI and it's temp grant scheme purposes.
 
No one has yet been able to supply me with with verifiable real world performance data. I would like to to see fully monitored systems running somewhere like Sweden to back up all the claims being made. Until then it is all just puff. I think the stuff is made in Portugal where in a nice warm climate it probably works OK. If it is such a good idea, why has no one else done something similar?
 
No one has yet been able to supply me with with verifiable real world performance data. I would like to to see fully monitored systems running somewhere like Sweden to back up all the claims being made. Until then it is all just puff. I think the stuff is made in Portugal where in a nice warm climate it probably works OK. If it is such a good idea, why has no one else done something similar?
patents I assume.

ENERGIE holds exclusively the patent for this product and is world leader in the manufacture of thermodynamic solar panels.
We are present in more than 29 countries across four continents.

There's no reason at all why this shouldn't work, although I do share your scepticism about some of the COP claims, though tbf the COP for ASHP's suffers more at lower temperatures mainly because of the need to use resistive heating to defrost the units to prevent them freezing up, something that's less of an issue for a part of the system with no moving parts as is the case the these panels.
 
When I checked the testing information the laboratory was in the Far East. I cannot see why a company in Portugal would have testing done in Taiwan and then manufacture in Portugal? The Chinese make lots self contained heat pump units. People are being duped if they think they are made in EU.
Energie have been flogging these units in Ireland for a while but not one person has come back with any data from an actual domestic set up.
 
When I checked the testing information the laboratory was in the Far East. I cannot see why a company in Portugal would have testing done in Taiwan and then manufacture in Portugal? The Chinese make lots self contained heat pump units. People are being duped if they think they are made in EU.
Energie have been flogging these units in Ireland for a while but not one person has come back with any data from an actual domestic set up.

I'm thinking about seeing if we can rig up a test unit somewhere and monitor it properly. I've got monitoring kit I could remove from our solar water heating system, as I think after 4 years I know that works now.
 
These are put over as some revolutionary technology. But are they?
Can someone explain how they differ from air sourced heat pumps.
 
they use the same principle, but a passive heat collection method instead of active - ie they don't have a fan to suck air across a small heat collector, they have a big heat collector to collect heat as the wind naturally moves the air across it, as well as collecting energy from sunlight directly when it's available.

they also have the advantage of being suitable for north facing roofs (possibly IMO even more suited for them than south facing, as I reckon south facing would be more prone to summer overheating), so are ideal partners for solar PV in that they're not competing for the same roof space.

I seem to be talking myself into these now.
 
thing is, they're always going to be more efficient than ASHP or GSHP as they only need a tiny pump to pump the fluid around on top of the compressor, whereas an ASHP has to run a sodding great fan, and the GSHP has to run a much bigger pump.

So higher COP's for the same input temps are to be expected (bearing in mind these are relatively low power units anyway), and they will have the significant advantage of gathering direct solar heat as well as heat from the air which will also significantly boost their average COP (not so much for winter use if on a north roof obviously).

So the figures are very high, but there are logical reasons for why they also might possibly be accurate.
 
Gavin
What would you envisage using this equipment for?
My only interest is in the possibility of space heating, especially in off grid areas. I would envisage use in conjunction with a thermal store. Hence the reason for wanting substantiated performance data from more northerly latitudes.
 
same as really.

I suspect they'll only be viable for that in well insulated houses probably with some form of biomass boiler, or at least a stove for the main room to act as back up / supplementary heating in extreme conditions (when the efficiency of the system will be at it's lowest).

I suspect that wall mounting may be preferable for these purposes to reduce the potential for snow build up around the panel, and vertical mounting also has the advantage of maximising winter solar gain while reducing the peak summer solar input by around 40% to avoid overheating in summer.
 
Gents

Google thermogroup uk, they have a lot of technical info there that answers all the questions you are raising.

Basically it is not a solar panel, it works on atmospheric conditions, It works like a fridge, but only in reverse, producing heat instead of cooling.
 
We still need real time data from real installations. All I get is "brilliant - I have hot water 24/7 no problem..." which is not real data. A heat pump will get you 55c but you need 65c for legionella and that can only be done by immersion element?
Several posts on Irish forum have been started and when I ask for data they suddenly disappear.
Latest guy had a monitor on the compressor power cord to measure usage. He had a bath and showers and washing machine and dishwasher etc. I asked if the washing machine and dishwasher were cold fill. And if there was an immersion option which was monitored.............silence!
I give up.

Oh and here is the response I got from questions direct to the Thermogroup UK some weeks ago after I went through the website information:
(Their response in italics)

We could do with going through this over the phone at some point but i have answered in brief below

1. Why does it state on one page will supply "100% of your hot water" and on another page "up to 100% of your hot water"
2. Because for domestic systems it is 100% and for commercial it is often a pre-heat.

2. When it compares the cost for a large installation it states there is electric heating. But the system does not need any back up heating?
The existing supply was electric only and the new installation only needs the compressor and an immersion for the anti legionnaire cycle.

3. It provides a running cost but only calculates the running cost of the 9kw heater, it does not include the running cost of the heat pump??
4. ??

5. For the domestic install it says the pump uses 390w so I assume the commercial system would be multiples of that number?
Exactly

5. Why in a domestic situation does it refer to kWp which is a measure of solar PV output not an electric heater. If it is a standard immersion at 3kw then the cost will be £1.26 per day.
This is a typo on an early presentation,sorry.

6. Based on corrected numbers the payback on their calculation is 10 years. But I do not believe any of their numbers.
7. There maybe some confusion here.

7. If you use that calculation on the commercial install - let's say the 1000 litre cylinder has 3 x 3kw immersions at 18 hours = a payback time of 10 years. The running cost is £12.47 a day.
The commercial installation uses the 1000 litres 4 times a day.

Or am I missing something bleeding obvious??
No just a little confusion.

So yes I am confused.
 
I agree there are some teething issues with thermodynamic panels!

All of the questions you have asked are valid points that need to be addressed before we are convinced by the sales literature.

Drop me a message with your email address, and I will try my best to get your questions answered, or at least find somebody who can answer them for you.
 

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