Discuss Through crimp on solid core wire... what do we reckon in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Dustydazzler

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Its okay / does the job Or rough as a badgers and should be a wago / push fit style connector

Thoughts ?
 
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Dustydazzler

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I think a crimp is okay on a solid wire if the wire has no chance of being wiggled once crimped

But if there is the slightest chance the wire can be wiggled or moved then imo the crimp isn't suitable

It is quite easy to pull a crimp off a solid wire
 

Lucien Nunes

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There is no single correct answer.
Some crimps are suitable for solid conductors, some are not. Only the manufacturers can tell you, and their answer will rely on you using their recommended tool. Random crimps in own-brand bags bought off a rack at the wholesaler, crimped with the tool you always carry, I wouldn't use on solid.

Crimping to solid is much more finicky and everything has to be correct. A properly fitted crimp will not pull off the conductor without being destroyed or stretched in the process. Mechanical strength is a good sign of a sound connection but not proof that it is a proper cold weld and therefore able to last through years of thermal cycling.
 

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I mean isn't that technically the point of a crimp, to crimp two wires together? So in that sense yeah it's fine but i'm of the opinion that if there is a better way then you should do it that way.

So when i see colleges teaching people to fanny about with knives or snips to strip wires, i don't like it because there are actual tools designed for the job that you should use.

To me it's the equivalent of chiselling out wood with a screwdriver when you have a chisel in your bag.

Just use a wago.
 

Lucien Nunes

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I can't follow that argument. Sometimes a crimp is more convenient or suitable than a Wago due to the physical layout or when cables are very short. And a properly made crimp can be more robust and durable than a Wago, especially with high temperatures and vibration. So it's not just a case of saying a Wago is better and should be used by default. Aircraft and space rocket wiring is crimped, not connected with Wagos.

However, a crimp terminal that is not suitable for solid conductors absolutely must not be used on solid conductors because a weak connection is very likely. I suspect many negative experiences as mentioned above stem from using unsuitable products on T+E, and mismatched terminals and tools.
 

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I can't follow that argument. Sometimes a crimp is more convenient or suitable than a Wago due to the physical layout or when cables are very short. And a properly made crimp can be more robust and durable than a Wago, especially with high temperatures and vibration. So it's not just a case of saying a Wago is better and should be used by default. Aircraft and space rocket wiring is crimped, not connected with Wagos.

However, a crimp terminal that is not suitable for solid conductors absolutely must not be used on solid conductors because a weak connection is very likely. I suspect many negative experiences as mentioned above stem from using unsuitable products on T+E, and mismatched terminals and tools.
For me easiest and best always wins. In a socket situation a wago is absolutely better. It might be different in a rocket or aircraft but this video is about a socket.

It has much less room for user error, is faster, easier, looks better. The only thing it loses out on is cost but then to do a proper crimp you need to buy a crimping tool.

Using something that's slower, more prone to error, harder, looks worse is pointless when there's a better way of doing it. That doesn't mean using the crimp is wrong but again it's like using a brace and bit when you have a cordless sat there, or stripping wire with your nail when you can buy an 18 quid set of auto strippers. Imo, of course.
 

Lucien Nunes

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The question I was concerned with was not 'are crimps a good choice for extending wires in sockets?' but 'are crimps suitable for solid conductors?' Which is the title of the thread. I get your point that in this application there is no particular reason to crimp and indeed a Wago might well be a better choice.

As far as the suitability of crimps for solid goes, some said yes and some said no, but no-one seemed to be paying attention to the fact that it depends entirely on whether the particular crimp terminal being used is designed for the purpose. Saying that crimps are an inferior method of connection that sometimes come loose is like saying twin-and-earth is a poor choice of cable for wiring showers, merely because 1.5mm twin-and-earth overheats when used for that purpose.

Correctly selected and installed crimps are reliable and durable, and although Wagos are probably the more practical choice here that does not make crimps 'rough.' But many pre-insulated crimps installed by 'electricians' are rough, because they are not suitable or not fitted with the correct tool. I never have any problem with crimps. They never come loose or make a bad connection. But I never use ordinary cheap red/blue/yellow stuff on solid.
 
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What I'll never understand, is with so much ambiguity, why on earth they're one of very few approved MF connections. Honestly, I'd rather see a bakelite screw terminal junction box under the floorboards than a through crimp.
 

Lucien Nunes

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It's hard not to agree as far as a joint in domestic 2.5 T+E is concerned, but the regs apply equally to a 185mm² cable carrying 400A and I know which connection method I would prefer to see there.

If correctly specified and properly fitted, crimp terminals are an effective and reliable method of connection. There's no need for the regs to call out incorrect or badly-installed crimps separately, because there is already a reg about suitability and quality of materials and workmanship.
 
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It's hard not to agree as far as a joint in domestic 2.5 T+E is concerned, but the regs apply equally to a 185mm² cable carrying 400A and I know which connection method I would prefer to see there.

If correctly specified and properly fitted, crimp terminals are an effective and reliable method of connection. There's no need for the regs to call out incorrect or badly-installed crimps separately, because there is already a reg about suitability and quality of materials and workmanship.

A very valid point, which blinded by the types of cables i encounter, I'd failed to recognise.

I have certain views on that whole MF thing which are a little off topic for this post. But I'm short the whole thing concerns me. I see many well trained electricians installing MF Joints - but if you read the small print on exactly how they should be installed and with which specific connector types, they often aren't. IE wagobox, although MF actually only complies with certain types of wago and if installed in a specific way.

Your comment on "appropriate connection" would have sufficed in my mind.
 
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I have crimped T&E under floorboards in the past, before Wagos where about. I slip a length of heat shrink over the joint and then house it in a chocbox with the strain relief clamps fitted. That is then screwed to a joist. I think if it is not likely to be put under any stress or movement then it is a suitable solution.
 

Lucien Nunes

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I agree that strain relief on an MF joint is a good thing, you don't want it being disrupted if you can't check or fix it. But relying on strain relief to protect a mechanically insecure connection from parting company is not so good. In my book, if cables can be pulled or wriggled free from a crimp, it's not a satisfactory connection, even if you've arranged to stop them being be pulled. It is an indication that the terminal and conductor are not properly cold-welded or interlocked with each other, so that the contact surfaces are properly gas-tight against oxidation and have enough pressure to resist thermal cycling forces.

When you try to pull a really sound crimp apart, the cable should normally stretch and break leaving a stub in the terminal, or only come free from the terminal by pulling it out of shape or breaking it.
 

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