To RCD or not...?!

[londonlec]

Hey Guys,

Kitchen socket outlets within living accomodation in a boarding school?

I am altering/adding to the existing circuit.

My guess is cables buried <50mm won't need RCD as its a supervised environment.

But I feel the sockets will need protection.

I cant even find the DB at the moment, so am thinking along the lines of SRCD's.


Any views would be much appreciated!

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Just fit RCD socket outlets.

 

[Hawk81]

If the new additions you add have cables that are buried <50mm then those cables need to be RCD protected. Being in a supervised area does not mean you can omit an RCD on cables buried less than 50mm. RCD the circuit in my opinion

 

[londonlec]

As I couldn't (easily) locate the DB, I am concerned an RCD trip will knock out a whole floor until maintenance can find the RCD/RCBO.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I would agree with Hawk81, not sure if its must do under the regs, but i do know that all general purpose RCD's do need RCD protection. 415.1.1 and other regs in that area will clarify the situation. But whether or not the cables need RCD protection or not Hawks post does make good sense and if nothing else err's on the side of caution. If i recall there was a recent post regarding a teacher stapling kids posters to the wall ad hoc using a handheld stapler, one of which pierced the neutral conductor. So the install maybe under supervision, but Miss doesn't give a ---- when her kids posters need to be put up.

Cheers...........Howard

 

[Hawk81]

Is the kitchen a ring on its own?

 

[londonlec]

Is the kitchen a ring on its own?

I am not sure at the moment, without getting my fuse finder out.

I 'suspect' it is part of a large ring covering a few rooms (with stud walls).

My new cable will be chased in behind tiles, so unless 'Miss' is using a Paslode, we should be ok

 

[Hawk81]

Really you need to find the CU to see what is going on. I still would RCD the circuit.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It is only for cables that there is an exception for the requirement to provide RCD protection if the installation is under the control of a skilled or instructed person.
Socket-outlets for general use by ordinary persons, must be provided with RCD protection, unless their use is to be supervised by skilled or instructed persons.

 

[morph]

this is not a situation where it is under control by a skilled person in my view so rcd is needed

 

[Guest112]

does that rcd need rcd protection aswell does it ever end? lol

 

[Rockingit]

Bottom line here is the fact that we're discussing whether or not to spend £25ish on an RCD/RCBO, or can we find a way to wriggle out.

The socket outlets can be used for general purposes, by unskilled people, and we can't guarantee mechanical protection of the cable that supplies them.

Where's the wriggle in that?

 

[Lux]

Im a Kiwi living In NZ where i should be, I dont know much about your Regs but by god the world of the Electrician is rife with rules and bloody regulations and all the idiots out there that electricute themselves just make the job so much harder.
I spent 2 hours today trying to establish why the RCD's I installed would not hold in, still haven't resolved the problem, i hate the bloody things.

 

[londonlec]

I'm not wriggling. I am trying to avoid a fault in one room knocking out 5+ dormatories, which is my eyes is more dangerous/inconvenient.

 

[hughesy]

rcd socket outlets and cables protected by earthed metal capping,,,just a thought.

 

[1shortcircuit]

I'm not wriggling. I am trying to avoid a fault in one room knocking out 5+ dormatories, which is my eyes is more dangerous/inconvenient.

Surely there's some form of emergency lighting throughout the corridors etc?

Also, providing the lights and sockets that you're concerned with are on separate RCD/RCBO's then even if there is an out there will be adequate form of separation to avoid a problem?

Finding that DB is top priority so that you can assess the current design and then base your decision on facts rather than If's but's and maybe's.

Good Luck, I look forward to following your updates:thumbsup

Regards

1SC

 

[Robinson]

bit off point but...Worth once established DB details etc to ask what will be in use in kitchen, as you said maybe other rooms. We had a situation once where RCD boards were put in school. only to have a trip over bank hol weekend. had £15,000 of food go up the sHOOT because no one there to reset or even notice the trip. reason was the kitchen was on circuit with few class rooms. the rewire that preceded requested seperate circuits for the Fridges and freezers..

 

[morph]

cant see why a rcd is likely to cause problems providing the circuits are good , so many people see rcds as a problem i never have problems and only see benefits with them.

 

[Robinson]

cant see why a rcd is likely to cause problems providing the circuits are good , so many people see rcds as a problem i never have problems and only see benefits with them.

Very true. Providing circuits are good and equipment used on them

 

[morph]

i am still unsure how the new sockets will be added when the OP has not found the DB LOL