Discuss Triton T80 Easi-Fit Shower Cutting out with sink tap on ;-( in the Electrical Appliances Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hiya,

Had a Triton T80 8.5Kw shower for the last two years in upstairs bathroom connected to the mains cold supply.

Its still working but cutting out and the water going cold when the upstairs bathroom sink tap is switched on.

Have just bought a new Triton T80 10.5kw shower and hoping this will fix the issue (have the thick wiring connection to fuse box).

But a part of me is wondering if the issue may be with the cold supply being affected in some way and putting a new or more powerful shower is not going to help?

In fact the new 10.5kw shower requires a 1.5bar of water pressure as opposed to 1.0bar for the 8.5kw.

Any pointers? Any way to diagnose if its water pressure or a shower problem?

I guess I could unplug the water connection to the shower box and see what kind of flow is coming out of the pipe? Not sure if there any way to measure if its 1.5br? Just not sure why the shower is working fine, but has started cutting out when the cold sink or bath tap is on and if I am going to make it worse by upgrading the shower? Its about 2.5 years old now and so out of warranty. There is a low pressure warning light on the shower which I have never seen come on.

Welcome any direction please.
 
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telectrix

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common fault. low water pressure. soon as someone flushes the bogtshowers go cold. our whole street is the same. only answer is to feed with pump, but that's not allowed on the mainwater supply. carch 22.
 
OP
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common fault. low water pressure. soon as someone flushes the bogtshowers go cold. our whole street is the same. only answer is to feed with pump, but that's not allowed on the mainwater supply. carch 22.
Thanks. Water pressure out of the shower is not good, but the I assume the real test would be to take the cold water supply out of shower and test it to see how fasts its coming out. Maybe this...

How to Test Water Pressure (Expert Guide) - Anchor Pumps - https://www.anchorpumps.com/blog/test-water-pressure-home/

Would have thought the low water pressure light would come on if the shower was cutting out due to lack of pressure.

Just wondering if the water authorities ever slow down the pressure if a tenant hasn't paid a water bill on time, I don't think this happens?
 
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What rating is the cable so that we can
establish with shower. Cause if it a new shower it would be under garrantee.
Its over 2 years so no more guarantee.

Its the really thick cable - at least 10mm and maybe 16mm. When I called Triton they said 10mm min is needed for 10.5kw shower with a 45mA fuse - may have up upgrade the current 40mA fuse.

https://www.tritonshowers.co.uk/media/custom/upload/File-1366041415.pdf

Just don't want the same issues if the probs are with the water supply - checking I am not missing a trick here.
 

brianmoooore

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You are correct in that the higher power shower will make things worse IF all other things are equal.
As mentioned in one of the post above, there should be a filter i the inlet to the shower which may be a partly blocked, so this is the first thing to check.
If all is well there, then this is a plumbing problem, which can almost certainly be improved on, but not necessarily eliminated.
First thing to check is that the main stopcock to the property is turned fully on. It may have been turned partly off to control excessive flow from some taps. The problem taps should then be fitted with their own 'stopcock' (they already should be) which can be turned partly off.
 
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You are correct in that the higher power shower will make things worse IF all other things are equal.
As mentioned in one of the post above, there should be a filter i the inlet to the shower which may be a partly blocked, so this is the first thing to check.
If all is well there, then this is a plumbing problem, which can almost certainly be improved on, but not necessarily eliminated.
First thing to check is that the main stopcock to the property is turned fully on. It may have been turned partly off to control excessive flow from some taps. The problem taps should then be fitted with their own 'stopcock' (they already should be) which can be turned partly off.
Yes, good advice, this is on my radar. Pretty sure inlet its fully open, but will check, downstairs water flow from kitchen tap (near internal stopcock) looks pretty good, but not sure what 1.5 bar looks like and so may have to use the 1litre and timing trick to see (unless there is any other way to do it)?

If the water flow from copper pipe into shower looks good as well, then can only assume the shower or filter need sorting. If flow is good into shower, would prefer a 10.5kw shower as winter months are coming.
 

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You need to invest in a cheap 4 bar pressure gauge, and a few fittings to enable you to connect it to the shower supply pipe, and see how much the pressure drops at the shower when a tap is switched on.
If it's only the bathroom basin tap causing the problem, a cheap and simple solution would be to lock the bathroom door when using the shower.
 

telectrix

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United Utilities tolsme it was the oldleadpipes cominginto the house were furred up and it was our problem. funny thing is...... our mains water comes in t]from the streetmain in copper. proper imperial copper 1/2"pipe, not the new fangled thin walled metric crap that bosts as soon as ot gets cold.
 

Petej999

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LastManOnline

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Yes, good advice, this is on my radar. Pretty sure inlet its fully open, but will check, downstairs water flow from kitchen tap (near internal stopcock) looks pretty good, but not sure what 1.5 bar looks like and so may have to use the 1litre and timing trick to see (unless there is any other way to do it)?

If the water flow from copper pipe into shower looks good as well, then can only assume the shower or filter need sorting. If flow is good into shower, would prefer a 10.5kw shower as winter months are coming.
Is your bathroom upstairs or downstairs?
 

brianmoooore

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Posted it above. Current fuse thingy-ma-jig says - "32amp MTN 110 6000 Hager fuse" - that OK for a 10.5kw shower?
That sounds like a 32A Hager MCB which is most definitely not suitable for a 10.5kW shower, even if it really is 9.6W. It may not trip during the length of any normal shower session, but will routinely overheat, and suffer internal damage.
It's not even suitable for the existing 8.5kW shower.
 
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You need to invest in a cheap 4 bar pressure gauge, and a few fittings to enable you to connect it to the shower supply pipe, and see how much the pressure drops at the shower when a tap is switched on.
If it's only the bathroom basin tap causing the problem, a cheap and simple solution would be to lock the bathroom door when using the shower.
I actually managed to fit the new 10.5kw shower, not too hard as a like for like replacement. More of a plumbing issue as tried to use the same olive with the water supply and it leaked everywhere. New 15mm nut and olive later and it was water tight.

I did check the water supply before fitting to the shower - it was mains pressure and came gushing out so I assume it made the min 1.5 bar Triton requirement for this shower.

But even with new 10.5kw shower fitted, the same issue happened with the bathroom tap. When the bathroom tap is fully on, the electric shower goes cold with no "low pressure" light coming on. Tried going downstairs and leaving the kitchen tap fully on and that didn't effect the upstairs shower. So I assume the shower cold is probably T-ed of the sink tap and it effects the shower more (just miffed why the low pressure warning light isn't coming on the shower when it cuts out).
 

brianmoooore

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The water coming from the shower should momentarily go hotter before cutting out, and I would certainly expect the low pressure light to come on.
In most houses, the kitchen sink tap is much closer to the incoming main than the bathroom, so perhaps the kitchen tap already has a partly shut off valve connected before it. Does the bathroom basin tap have an isolator valve, as it should have? If so, try turning this partly off, to restrict the basin flow a bit.
Are you using the shower head supplied with the shower? Electric showers use a far more restrictive head, in terms of flow, compared to that used with 'proper' showers, to create sufficient back pressure in the shower to operate the flow switch.
 
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That sounds like a 32A Hager MCB which is most definitely not suitable for a 10.5kW shower, even if it really is 9.6W. It may not trip during the length of any normal shower session, but will routinely overheat, and suffer internal damage.
It's not even suitable for the existing 8.5kW shower.
Oh ok - do I need a Hager 145 45A fuse thingy then? Maybe like this, but its looks a bit odd shapped?

Else this one is 50A and assume it will do the job?

Not sure if changing the cartridge is reasonable things for non elecy to do (I don't want to die). Seems reasonably straightforward? Anything to be careful off? - aka the main tail ends from the supply will always be live?


 
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The water coming from the shower should momentarily go hotter before cutting out, and I would certainly expect the low pressure light to come on.
In most houses, the kitchen sink tap is much closer to the incoming main than the bathroom, so perhaps the kitchen tap already has a partly shut off valve connected before it. Does the bathroom basin tap have an isolator valve, as it should have? If so, try turning this partly off, to restrict the basin flow a bit.
Are you using the shower head supplied with the shower? Electric showers use a far more restrictive head, in terms of flow, compared to that used with 'proper' showers, to create sufficient back pressure in the shower to operate the flow switch.
Ah OK. Will try the shower head and isolator valve adjustment.
 
OP
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The water coming from the shower should momentarily go hotter before cutting out, and I would certainly expect the low pressure light to come on.
In most houses, the kitchen sink tap is much closer to the incoming main than the bathroom, so perhaps the kitchen tap already has a partly shut off valve connected before it. Does the bathroom basin tap have an isolator valve, as it should have? If so, try turning this partly off, to restrict the basin flow a bit.
Are you using the shower head supplied with the shower? Electric showers use a far more restrictive head, in terms of flow, compared to that used with 'proper' showers, to create sufficient back pressure in the shower to operate the flow switch.

Adjusted the Isolator value on the cold into the Bathroom sink and it did the job. Turned it just enough so even max output on the tap did not cause the shower to go cold. Thanks for that. ;-)

Surprised the Triton shower low pressure light did not come on if there was an issue with the water inlet into the shower unit.
 

telectrix

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Then you have convenient access to your attic and the obvious and desirable option is a pumped shower. You get better and trouble free flow. Need never again worry about a toilet been flushed or a tap been turned on. And you are unaffected by mains pressure variations. A pumped shower is the ideal way to go
then advise here. have a pumped shower off C/H. hot is pumped, cold not. when shower tap is on cool, it's freezig. soon as turn tap to activate pump, it's scalding. no regulation.
 

Zerax

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A mate of mine had is loft converted.. which meant getting rid of the cold water storage tanks (CWS) in the loft and installing a mains fed hot water storage tank. Then they built a massive new housing development across the road...

Now he has pressure issues (but pressure is above the legal minimum)... that would be solved by re-installing the CWS tank into his daughters bedroom !
 

LastManOnline

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then advise here. have a pumped shower off C/H. hot is pumped, cold not. when shower tap is on cool, it's freezig. soon as turn tap to activate pump, it's scalding. no regulation.
Hi TEL. Think you are referring to a "power shower" there. I was referring to a pumped electric shower. So a direct feed from the water tank in the attic preventing any pressure variations affecting shower supply.
With the power shower you have installed, I, m less experienced but I would wonder whether having a hot and cold water supply at different pressures (one pumped, one not) might be worth looking at?
 

LastManOnline

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Now he has pressure issues (but pressure is above the legal minimum)... that would be solved by re-installing the CWS tank into his daughters bedroom !
Building of houses/commercial premises is often outstripping infrastructure capacity causing water pressure issues. Plus unsatisfactory maintenance results in more clogging of the system. As a result we notice among landlords a growing trend to ditch the "Power shower" for the less attractive but also less problematic pumped electric shower
 

Pretty Mouth

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then advise here. have a pumped shower off C/H. hot is pumped, cold not. when shower tap is on cool, it's freezig. soon as turn tap to activate pump, it's scalding. no regulation.
For pumped showers, both hot and cold feeds should be pumped (via the same pump), and the cold should come from the same large header tank that feeds the hot water cylinder. This way, both hot and cold will have exactly the same pressure at the shower
 

brianmoooore

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For pumped showers, both hot and cold feeds should be pumped (via the same pump), and the cold should come from the same large header tank that feeds the hot water cylinder. This way, both hot and cold will have exactly the same pressure at the shower
And the outlet from the tank that feeds the hot water cylinder should be marginally higher up the tank than the one the feeds cold water to the pump.
 

brianmoooore

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Started out as a sparky, then, about 15 years later, after a particularly bad experience with a plumber on site, I decided enough was enough and expanded the business into plumbing and heating as well.
I continued to do jobs which were purely electrical, did a few which were almost pure plumbing, and did many that were electrics and plumbing, but vowed never again to take a job doing electrics, where a plumber is involved as well.
I stuck too this policy for about 10 years, when two good long term customers of mine both started a large new build project at the same time. Couldn't possibly take all that on, so told both customers they'd have to find plumbers elsewhere.
This following month or two did nothing to improve my opinion of plumbers! One had installed heating pipes along each side of a single storey loft, right out against the ventilated eaves, and had installed the boiler as a potential bomb - isolator valves on the flow and return, with no vent or PRV. Fire up the boiler with both valves off and it goes bang.
Compared to the other property, though, this one was perfection. Other place had heating pipes, hot water pipes and cold water pipes all running together in ducts under the floor, with no insulation between them. There were about a dozen hand basins around the place, all with individual hot and cold water taps, but no consistency as to which tap was on the left and which on the right. The taps chosen only had a tiny identifying mark on them, so it was pot luck as to whether your chosen tap was hot or cold. To add to this, because the heating pipes were in contact with cold pipes, and the hot water in some cases had a long way to travel to the tap, some would flow hot at first, then change to cold, and others would be cold for a while and then hot. Went into the loft while the plumber was commissioning the heating, and saw the vent pipe for the heating header tank was flowing water at full bore. He hadn't a clue why, so I ended up drawing out a diagram for him to change the pipework to on a large iece of cardboard packaging from the kitchen units.
That was the last time I ever worked with a plumber.
 
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Adjusted the Isolator value on the cold into the Bathroom sink and it did the job. Turned it just enough so even max output on the tap did not cause the shower to go cold. Thanks for that. ;-)
Surprised the Triton shower low pressure light did not come on if there was an issue with the water inlet into the shower unit.

Thanks for previous advise. Just a quickie...

...after replacing the old 8.5kw, I wanted to store this old shower away, but there is a water rattling around in it. Just wondering if anyone knows how to get this water out as I am sure its not going to be good to leave it inside the shower for years in storage. Have left it for a while and its not dripping out easily - assume there is some complex heater/exchange within the shower.

.. anyone know a trick to remove water from an electric shower so it can be stored?
 

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