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Discuss Trying again - Do I need a fire alarm? in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

A

ash2020

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Hi all,
I tried this back in October but didn't really sort it at the time.

I have two flats, they're going to be holiday lets. There is a common entrance stairway up to the first floor where there is a door each way into each flat.

The question is, I'm obviously putting in interlinked smokes in each flat but do I need a separate fire alarm system with BGUs in the communal area with sounders in the flats?

Please don't direct me to Approved document B, it doesn't really clear it up.

Also, if I have to put in a fire alarm, am I qualified as a full Part P registered spark?

Cheers
Andy
 
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A

AMST09

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
The best thing to do is contact the local council as they have different regulations on smoke alarms in different counties
 
D

daver

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Speak to the council. I have just finished a job on 8 double bedded flats over 4 floors. Each flat has a heat in kitchen and smoke in corridor. The staircase has linked smoke on each stage of the stairs, but no sounder in the flats.
They have to pass the 70db at the pillow of the bed, which the flats do. But the communals ones are no where near that. It was approved by the council on the drawings, but I can see the landlord coming back to me and asking for sounders around the bedroom area of the communal detectors.

Do a google for A guide to BS5839 or the IEE guide to fire alarms in dwellings.

Very helpful


Dave
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Personally I would just so that all bases would be covered. Not forgetting EM lighting also.;)
 
A

ash2020

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Speak to the council. I have just finished a job on 8 double bedded flats over 4 floors. Each flat has a heat in kitchen and smoke in corridor. The staircase has linked smoke on each stage of the stairs, but no sounder in the flats.
They have to pass the 70db at the pillow of the bed, which the flats do. But the communals ones are no where near that. It was approved by the council on the drawings, but I can see the landlord coming back to me and asking for sounders around the bedroom area of the communal detectors.

Do a google for A guide to BS5839 or the IEE guide to fire alarms in dwellings.

Very helpful


Dave
Thanks Dave.
Smokes aren't a problem. I'm trying to find out whether I have to have an LD2 system in the communal area with Break Glass Units and whether I can install it myself.One flat has a floor over 4.5M from ground level, but it's not absolutely clear from Part B.
Cheers
Andy
 
D

daver

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Ash

I'm not an expert on fire, but as a qualified spark I can install. Which I did of the architects drawing. So as a qualified spark you can install and certify.

If it was me, I would speak to the council initially.

Otherwise, belt and braces the job like lennytheloon suggested. Peoples safety, so go overboard. Put sounders in flats off the communal detection. Put a break glass in. Emergency light on stairwell and an exit sign.

In the grand scheme of things, that additional £100 is piece of mind for you.

Dave
 
C

cfsfire

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Since the fire safety regulatory reform order 2005 which came into place in 2006. The type of system and category is up to your fire risk assessment and no one else.

You can carry out your own fire risk assessment as long as you do it correctly. £3000 fine last time i looked for not having one or not completing it correctly. Also lots of companies can carry out the assessment for you from between £100 - £500 depending on the size of property and some companies charge over the odds (we charge £99).

Everything you need to know is listed here Assessment Information scroll down to the more information box and download the guide for your property type.

I havent seen your property but the very minium would be a BS5839:6 2002 LD2 interlinked system depending on the property layout you may requier BS5839:1 2002 L2 system

You will also requier an annual maintenance contract in place to service the system a minium of two visits per year.

BS states that a compotent person or comapny can certificate the system it also states that compotent is defined as having gained experience and specifiic qualifications for example the FIA.

Sorry for the long awnser but you need to know all the facts to make an informed decision and it is a life safety system.

Any questions you have let me know I hope this helps.
 
A

ash2020

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Thanks cfsfire. I think I'm certainly competent to do a risk assessment, install and certify. However, I've been talking to the local Fire Safety Officer who agrees that it is a difficult one. I think the only thing I can now be sure of is that it is not a dwelling so will be a bit different.

For instance. If you put a zoned fire alarm in, with detectors in each flat and sounders in each flat you've got it covered. However, what if you get burnt toast in one flat and it leads to an evacuation of the other flat. If they're holiday flats they are going to be really uneasy (and ****ed off) after that.

Otherwise, if you just put a system in the communal area, and the normal linked smokes in each flat, in the event of a fire in the communal stairwell, you're not going to get 75dB at the bedhead in the flats.

I'm going to put in sprinklers in all areas, so that I can keep them open plan, so I favour have less alarms rather than more. I think its safer that way.

Cheers
Andrew
 
C

cfsfire

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
If you are fitting a sprinkler system you can then down grade the fire detection system but not the fire alarm sounders.

What sprinkler system are you fitting?

Some new conventional fire panels you can zone the sounders so only the sounders in the flat will sound for an investigation period then al sounders will sound but then you are going into phased evacuation and cause and effect and i wouldnt reccomed anyone to certifiy a system like this unless you are an advanced fire detection system designer.

Myself and other fire companies will design and certificate the design only if you would rather pass it on. You then just have to certificate for install & commissioning.

Any other questions just ask.

Adam

Remember a fire risk assessment covers more areas than most people think. A breif example

Fire detection
Emergency Lighting
portable fire fighting equipment
evacuation plans
staff training
Escape routes
Electrical safety
Building regulations
fire precaution works
Fire integrity
and lots more.........
 
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