Two bedrooms into one, adding shower and lift

[anothervisitor]

The local council are adding a lift to a small front bedroom, removing a wall to make the main bedroom and the small bedroom into one large bedroom.

They are also fitting a shower, wash basen and toilet

So now I will have one large bedroom with a floor lift, and electric shower.

Both bedrooms have sockets at the moment..

They cant seam to make up there mind on the reg's one saying the lift shaft will need a wall around it and a door.... others saying nothing (24 Volt mains charger)

The far end of the bedroom must have an socket outlet, its well out of the 3m rule, near end socket will be removed because its where the lift shaft is.

As an electrician of many years ago (15th addition) now disabled, im looking to see what should be done, else knowing them it wount be meet any regulations at all -

 

[Guest55]

The construction of the lift will be governed by both the building regs and the lift manufacterers specifications - both are outside the scope of the wiring regs and difficult for us on an electrical forum to comment on.
As for sockets positions , so long as 3 mtr from shower tray then no problem.
Not sure what your question is really ??

 

[Richard Burns]

Are you saying that the lift will be within 600mm of the shower? and so inside the zones, if it is outside the zones then so long as the lift is not on a socket there is not a problem or if it is just change it to a FCU.
You mention a 24V charger but do not say what this is for or where it is located.
As Biff what is your question?

 

[Des 56]

The lift may be the type for assisting to get in and out of bed,they can come with a set of batteries and a plug in charger

As others have said,the post seems to be a statement rather than asking a question

 

[anothervisitor]

Thanks for the replies, I don’t know much about the lift, or exactly where its door will open, but snippets of information gained from different people who have come to look at the work that needs to be done.

The lift is a floor lift, it travels from the living room to the second floor (upstairs bedroom) that bedroom is about 12F x 12F and is adjacent to the main bedroom separated by a partition type wall.

They will knock down the wall, and make the two bedrooms into one.

I’ve been told the lift shaft (box) will be about 1M square; don’t know if that’s metal panel or plastic, I guess it will be metal panels.

I’ve been told its 24 Volt

The upstairs bedroom will have the lifts shaft in the right-hand corner, and the shower will be in the left hand corner, so a guess would be a gap in the middle of 6 feet, where a toilet and washbasin will be put.

So the last people to visit happened to comment that because the lift was “In a room containing a bath or shower” it will need to be enclosed within a wall and door.

If they have to do that, the exit from the lift won’t be where I want it

So many people have come to look at the work, but none of them have been electrical engineers, or lift engineers, they have all been from the planning/office

Someone said that all the sockets from both bedrooms would need to be removed, which is not the case, as the shower base from the farthest socket will be around 6M away.

I’m also guessing that the lifts metal shaft would be regarded as containing the electrical circuit in its own room (box) I would say the charger will be in the living room downstairs, with 24 Volt traveling with the motor, only a guess though.

So to recap, I’m just fine with the 13A socket at the far end of the bedroom, so they don’t need to take those away, and can quote the 3M rule.

Just not sure of the lift.

I guess when the real workers turn up they will know exactly what can be done? Well perhaps not as the last time the council re-wired my kitchen they used plastic chocolate blocks for a permanent connection left behind a blanking cover adjacent to the sink

 

[ruston]

As has been said you need manufactures specs to get a real appraisal , but as the lift is 24v and may have an isolating transformer it should be ok in a shower room depending on where the transformer is located.

 

[Richard Burns]

From what you say the lift will be about 2m away from the shower and so will be outside of the zones by a long way.
The only significant provisions for equipment outside of the zones is that the equipment is suitable for the environment and that socket outlets are over 3m away from the edge of the shower. A 24V system over 2m away really should be suitable as you would only be expecting some limited water vapour in the air, and so long as the equipment is not supplied from a socket (it can be supplied from fixed wiring) then there is also no problem there.
The only other proviso I would raise is that all the low voltage circuits in the location should be protected by a 30mA RCD. So long as this is in place and your bonding and breakers are suitable there should be no requirement to make any other changes.

 

[donald]

i agree by what richard says as 24v system over 2m away should be suitable enough. i do certainly feel that there is no need to make any kind of changes if the bonding and breakers.

 

[anothervisitor]

Ok, the lift has to have a wall around it to stop steam from shower other than that its partly installed and all other work starts soon.

 

[Richard Burns]

Thank you for letting us know, I think they are being a bit over cautious; it is safer, but it must be a very hot and powerful shower to spray steam for two metres outside the shower cubicle!

Hope it goes well and you can actually get out of it once the wall is in place!
:75:

 

[anothervisitor]

Update

Well the bathroom side of things is installed, and a small room to isolate lift, its still not installed -

Few things have cropped up

Originally there was to be a moisture detection fan, ive fitted lots of these myself, mostly xpelair.

However they seam to have fitted a low voltage (always on) fan, there is a transformer in the landing. The fan has a pull switch, but so far it hasnt done anything? dont switch off, unless theres a big delay, and dont change speed. No indicator to show which way the switch is anyway

Anybody know anything about these fans ?

Ive also seen (photo) that the fan's flexable ducting is in the loft, but isnt going anywhere? steam would be pumpt into loft space?

Finally, also seen that cables for shower and other new wire isnt clipped to anything? I know I always clipped them to beams, isnt this coverd anymore?

 

[anothervisitor]

Ah ha, photo uploadView attachment 15548

 

[Richard Burns]

The moisture detector may be damaged or wet and so continuing to run.
The fan should not be on constantly, but may stay on because of ambient moisture, the default time delay if there is a time delay is 15 minutes, but they can be set up to about 30 min.

The only way to check the switch operation is with a tester.

Ducting a fan into the loft is unfortunately common but definitely bad practice, the ducting should go to the outside air, either through the soffit or through a purpose designed roof outlet. Ducting the moisture into the loft can cause damp problems.

cables do not need to be fixed to anything as lying on a surface is a recognised installation method, however I normally clip them to the beams because of the potential for them being covered in insulation and overheating.

Unfortunately your photo does not show up

 

[anothervisitor]

Dont know what happend to photo, it was showing, ill try again

 

[anothervisitor]

Time has moved on, and Ive asked questions, the fan was faulty, replaced with new one - however its a fan that stays on all the time at low speed, and the switch switches it to a faster speed, no means of switching it off. Totally usless, I would hear the noise from the bedroom side.

The inspection was to happen today, but a few days ago I asked about the ducting, Im sure it had been forgotten, but was told they would be placing a special roof vent tile, and sure enough they turned up with scafolding, which took hours to put up, and the venting tile took 5 min to fit, then hours to take down the scafolding again.

Scafolding left in a heap in my garden, i told them the scrap men call soon, so hope its gone in a few days.

Heath and saftey

Inspection had also been stopped - so think it will happen soon now.

Well im pleased with the results, and although corners were cut, the work turned out good, I was able to quote electrical installations to them, and to make sure I was updated before opening my big mouth :drool5:

Still no sign of when the lift will be fitted, dont expect problems then, as electrical work has been done for it, and there are no problems.

Its reached a point that if there is anything I dont like, Ill just wait untill its passed off and get thing changed myself, else this work will go on forever

now to look on ebay for a fan -

Thanks

cables do not need to be fixed to anything as lying on a surface is a recognised installation method

Shocked to hear this, as someone who did installations before being qualified, i did things right, and it was always said cables should be clipped, well supported even on flat serfices.

Still its not a problem I can get my son to clicp them when work is finished