Two or more circuits in a junction box (521.8.3)

[pc1966]

When looking up a reference on another thread I noticed rule 521.8.3 that says "Where two or more circuits are terminated in a single junction box this shall comply with BS EN 60670-22" and it got me wondering what BS EN 60670-22 actually says that has an implication for two or more circuits being terminated.

For example, if using an adaptable box or generic IP65 enclosure for joining 2 SWA cables to single cores for routing elsewhere, what has to be met?

Obviously I could waste a lot of money buying said BS document(s) and trying to work it out, but I wondered if anyone knows what is important here? Is is simply the terminals are fixed and grouped instead of a rat's nest of loose Wagos?

 

[Snailspark]

When looking up a reference on another thread I noticed rule 521.8.3 that says "Where two or more circuits are terminated in a single junction box this shall comply with BS EN 60670-22" and it got me wondering what BS EN 60670-22 actually says that has an implication for two or more circuits being terminated.

For example, if using an adaptable box or generic IP65 enclosure for joining 2 SWA cables to single cores for routing elsewhere, what has to be met?

Obviously I could waste a lot of money buying said BS document(s) and trying to work it out, but I wondered if anyone knows what is important here? Is is simply the terminals are fixed and grouped instead of a rat's nest of loose Wagos?

Hi,
BS EN 60670-22 refers to the type of junction box that needs to be used so that we don't end up joining cables in connector blocks and wrapping them in electrical tape or putting them in an empty ice cream carton - things like Wago boxes have to be 60670 compliant to make them electrically safe and doesn't spontaneously catch fire after 2 days!!. hope that helps?

 

[FatAlan]

Akin to a two gang light switch with strapper linked to say downstairs lights and other gang on the upstairs circuit?

 

[pc1966]

BS EN 60670-22 refers to the type of junction box that needs to be used so that we don't end up joining cables in connector blocks and wrapping them in electrical tape or putting them in an empty ice cream carton - things like Wago boxes have to be 60670 compliant

I think everyone on this forum would agree that joints should be in proper boxes for physical protection, etc!

What I wondered is what is it about two or more circuits here? What has a Wago box got that, say, a plain metal box does not that is needed to get 60670 compliance?

Other than money thrown at the testing bodies of course...

 

[buzzlightyear]

Some times I use bandages if I run out of tape if I can't use Wangoo box. Their you go
All better now. Lol.
[automerge]1592130088[/automerge]
What about margarine tubs with chock blocks are they complaint. Lol.

 

[Baddegg]

Some times I use bandages if I run out of tape if I can't use Wangoo box. Their you go
All better now. Lol.
[automerge]1592130088[/automerge]
What about margarine tubs with chock blocks are they complaint. Lol.

Only if In a bread bag buzz when outside mate...cmon you know this stuff ?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

EN 60670-1 is a fairly comprehensive and detailed specification for construction and test methods applicable to junction boxes generally. It is a long time since I looked at -22 (and I don't have a copy) but ISTR it extends some of the requirements for material properties and performance to any parts of the box that are required to maintain electrical separation of the circuits. Don't quote me on that though; if you do get sight, would be good to know.

My original interest was in connection with situations in theatre installations where parts of the fixed wiring are connected to the plugs of captive patch cords. Because the plug pins are exposed to the touch when not in use, it is possible to make contact with conductors sharing containment, multicore cables and accessories with energised conductors. Many installations and accessories did not IMO provide adequate insulation between circuits, nor were they usually tested comprehensively. These schemes are now rarely used but older examples still exist.

 

[pc1966]

It is a long time since I looked at -22 (and I don't have a copy) but ISTR it extends some of the requirements for material properties and performance to any parts of the box that are required to maintain electrical separation of the circuits.

That was what I assumed / wondered about.

Basically the more general question of if I use anything other than a dedicated "junction box" that is pre-approved for joining cables, which could be any sort of arrangements with trunking, adaptable boxes, IP65 boxes with gland plates, etc., what is needed?

I suspect that any sane engineering practice of adequate clearance and physical support/separation is enough, but it is annoying to have a rule that requires spending hundreds of pounds to find out if you can meet it or not!

 

[ipf]

That was what I assumed / wondered about.

Basically the more general question of if I use anything other than a dedicated "junction box" that is pre-approved for joining cables, which could be any sort of arrangements with trunking, adaptable boxes, IP65 boxes with gland plates, etc., what is needed?

I suspect that any sane engineering practice of adequate clearance and physical support/separation is enough, but it is annoying to have a rule that requires spending hundreds of pounds to find out if you can meet it or not!

It's a good example of where a decision has to be made, experience and common sense coming to the fore.

 

[pc1966]

It's a good example of where a decision has to be made, experience and common sense coming to the fore.

Common sense seems to be a super-power these days!

 

[ipf]

Common sense seems to be a super-power these days!

Wish it was mate.
Mind you, some would 'collar the market' and use it to make some dosh.

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

Hi,
BS EN 60670-22 refers to the type of junction box that needs to be used so that we don't end up joining cables in connector blocks and wrapping them in electrical tape or putting them in an empty ice cream carton - things like Wago boxes have to be 60670 compliant to make them electrically safe and doesn't spontaneously catch fire after 2 days!!. hope that helps?

Good afternoon everyone,

Just had to find this reg in the BBB and also noticed the reference to BSEN60670-22

I also don't wish to spend £100+ on the document but have a similar query.

Is it that 60670 says boxes used for 2 or more cables must have fixed terminals?

Just had a quick check on the web and found most large adaptable boxes to be BS60670 compliant yet the larger boxes tend to be the ones which have no guts to them.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Plenty of times I've seen joints in large singles using phase blocks inside galv trunkings...

 

[telectrix]

wago XL boxes state no more than 2 circuits in a box, and these must be separated 1 on left and 1 on right, no crossovers.