Two-way lighting x4 switches

[scottlock]

Hi, I'd like to pick some brains, I'm quite new to domestic installs and basically doing my first full re-wire;-)
I have an upstairs light and downstairs light, the customer wants a single switch at the end of the hall upstairs to control up light, a two-gang at the top of the stairs to control up/dn, two-gang at the bottom of the stairs to control up/dn and a single by the front door to control dn light, and when complete will I still be able to put up and down on separate RCD's. I'll be using 3-core and earth LSF running through 20mm plastic conduit. Any diagrams or walkthrough would be much appreciated, cheers.

 

[Hawk81]

I do not mean to offend but if you need diagrams for simple switching are you really ready to be doing this work on your own? And to answer your question yes you can have the up and down lights on different mcb's on different RCD's even tho it will mean 2 supplies at the one switch.

 

[needasparks]

Welcome scott, you are using some random stuff there for a domestic install, all is possible with use of intermediate switching but before anyone answers is this possibly your college work as with the materials you list and the rcd question it smells of college and we would not like you cheating as all the answers can easily be worked out if researched.

 

[scottlock]

Hi, fistly Hawk no your not offending at all. Needasparks lol no defo not for college, I passed my NVQIII 3 years ago and since been stuck working between a hospital and a university so not much domestic experience only the odd kitchen. To be honest I'm working on this job with a 10+ years sparks and could have just asked but didn't want to sound too inexperienced, I'm back in on Monday and just wanted to get on with it, I've drawn myself a diagram using the up and downstairs switches as intermediates and wanted to make sure I had everything right. Also I wasn't sure about the RCD's - the customer didn't specify the lights being on two seperate RCD's I just understood this as good practice. I have a 3 core running between all 4 switches with the end of hall switch going to the up light with t&e and the switch by the front door going to the dn light the same, doing it this way I know it will have to go on one side.

 

[lauriehurman]

the switch by the front door is a 2way,
each two gang, upstairs and down, is one 2way and one intermediate,
the switch at the end of the upstairs landing is a 2way,

The 2 lights are completely separate circuits;
the downstairs light has a 2way by the door, an intermediate downstairs and a 2way upstairs.
on a separate circuit the upstairs light has a 2way at the far end of the landing, an intermediate at the common position and a 2way at the common position downstairs.

I think you will have to buy two, 2gang, intermediate switch plates and wire one intermediate of each as a 2way.
just make sure you get the wiring right between the the two 2gang switches.

that's my 2ps
Laurie
P.S. can't draw, sorry.

 

[gtownspark]

As I've read it you'll be controlling the upstairs light from 3 different switches (end of hall, top of stairs and bottom of stairs) and the downstairs light from 3 switches (front door, bottom of the stairs and top of the stairs) so essentially you've got 2 intermediate lighting circuits. Seems a bit excessive for two lights! good luck

 

[supasparxs]

I agree with what others have said concerning college, but to answer your question.
why don't you move one on the lights and it's switches onto the other circuit?
then you won't have any issues with of different RCB and MCB's in the same switch.

Why are you running conduit between the switches?
your making loads of extra work for yourself.
use capping and 3 core and earth.

 

[sjm]

each two gang, upstairs and down, is one 2way and one intermediate,

I've not come across a 2 gang switch with 1 x 2way and 1 x intermediate. You will need to use a grid switch for this, or move the intermediates to the 1 gang locations and make the 2 gang switches the 2 way.


I would wire it so that the closest 2 way switch to the lights it controls is wired in T+E as standard switch from lights. Then wire from the 2 way switch in 3C+E through the intermediate switch and onto the last 2 way switch. Hope that makes sense.

Steve.

 

[needasparks]

Does seem a bit of a basic question but hey ho some sparks take college in and some don't, I guess if you have not ever done it in practice before good luck matey, It was just the LSF and tubework that made my ears ----- up. Either you like spending money on materials or your spending more of the nhs budget

 

[supasparxs]

each two gang, upstairs and down, is one 2way and one intermediate,

I've not come across a 2 gang switch with 1 x 2way and 1 x intermediate. You will need to use a grid switch for this, or move the intermediates to the 1 gang locations and make the 2 gang switches the 2 way.


I would wire it so that the closest 2 way switch to the lights it controls is wired in T+E as standard switch from lights. Then wire from the 2 way switch in 3C+E through the intermediate switch and onto the last 2 way switch. Hope that makes sense.

Steve.

my wholesale sell Euro..... can't remember the rest of the name
the switch is actually crabtree, and the fit there own faceplate.
this make they will it whichever combination of switches to a plate

if you choose a grid system, don't forget you'll need a deeper box to fit a grid switch

 

[sjm]

my wholesale sell Euro..... can't remember the rest of the name
the switch is actually crabtree, and the fit there own faceplate.
this make they will it whichever combination of switches to a plate

if you choose a grid system, don't forget you'll need a deeper box to fit a grid switch

I'm sorry I meant that 2 way and intermediate switches are not available as an off the shelf single unit that would easily match with any other switches.

 

[supasparxs]

I'm sorry I meant that 2 way and intermediate switches are not available as an off the shelf single unit that would easily match with any other switches.

I asked my wholesaler last year because a customer wanted light switches both sides of the bed and by the bedroom doorway.

basically, if you order them, they'll mount whichever switches within the cover

 

[ian.settle1]

As I've read it you'll be controlling the upstairs light from 3 different switches (end of hall, top of stairs and bottom of stairs) and the downstairs light from 3 switches (front door, bottom of the stairs and top of the stairs) so essentially you've got 2 intermediate lighting circuits. Seems a bit excessive for two lights! good luck

Not really as if the hall and landing are quite long the owner of the house may not want to walk down them to get to the switches in the dark with normal 2 way switching

 

[i=p/u]

ive drew it out on paper and its 2 sets of intermediate switching you need..

 

[scottlock]

Hi all, wow thanks for all your input, I know its a simple question for you with domestic experience but as I said I haven't done much practical lighting and we've all gotta start somewhere, show me once and i'll never ask again. This is a government job, and yes they are being over-excessive on materials, they've even asked for LSF mini trunking and conduit to BS 4678-4, the light switch by the front door is arms length from the switch at the bottom of the stairs??? And the up hallway is not even that long. But I'm lucky to have got on the job and if thats what they've asked for then I have to oblige. I just want to get everything perfect.

 

[Knobhead]

This job doesn’t sound real so I’m keeping out. But if you do some searching on the site you will find your answers.

 

[lauriehurman]

I'm sorry I meant that 2 way and intermediate switches are not available as an off the shelf single unit that would easily match with any other switches.

An intermediate switch works by connecting north to south - or - east to west.
If you bridge north and east then you get a gang that either connects north-east to west - or - north-east to south, which is what a 2way does.
So you just buy a 2gang intermediate and bridge two terminals and you've got a 2 gang one of which is an intermediate and one of which is a 2way.

Laurie

 

[nickblake]

If you want a 2 way and an intermediate switch on the same plate without using a grid use a click scolmore you can remove the backs and install what switch you like 2 way and an intermediate even a key switch and they dont look like grids but normal switches only use click now

 

[lauriehurman]

An intermediate switch works by connecting north to south - or - east to west.
If you bridge north and east then you get a gang that either connects north-east to west - or - north-east to south, which is what a 2way does.
So you just buy a 2gang intermediate and bridge two terminals and you've got a 2 gang one of which is an intermediate and one of which is a 2way.

Laurie

sorry, this is complete tosh. I'm obviously having a senior moment.
Use 2gang intermediates and only use one "L1" of the gang to make it a 2way, otherwise it'll stay on all the time.

Humble apologies.
Laurie

 

[MKS]

'shakes head' on this thread!