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S

Snapester

If you are talking extending ring final 2.5mm or lighting 1.5mm circuits i often use ideal wire connectors similar to the wago ones and inclose in a wago type enclosure?
I feel they offer a cleaner connection than that of a crimp.
 
S

Snapester

I would use metal crimps and then heat shrink over connections, then i would use self amalgamating tape to offer extra protection.
 

telectrix

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if i have to do it , then insulatef through crimps. heat shrink each joint, then over heat shrink or self-amalgamating tape over the lot.
 
S

Snapester

I did say it was my opinion mate and we know what opinions are like, everyone's got one.
True, True! But im with you to a degree i have seen some Rough, and i say rough!!! Crimp connections!
 
P

Plonker 3

That is what you wanted wasn't it?

Surely you know what crimps to use for what cable!!!!!!!
 
P

Plonker 3

You expect far too much mate
Oh yeah silly me, we live in a generation which now has the internet to do everything for you. I imagine it won't be long before we have the 5wiw becoming a sparky :(
 
E

Engineer54

They are commonly called ''Butt Crimps'' or Through Crimps''!! You will need a half decent ratchet crimping tool to make the joints maintenance free. Do not use those pressed flat plate multi function jobbies you get for a couple of quid, they are next to useless and will not give you a sound crimped termination....
 
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  • #21
That is what you wanted wasn't it?

Surely you know what crimps to use for what cable!!!!!!!
Jfgi.
Google is your friend mate. Try RS site,or a wholesaler.
Im sure I'm capable of performing a Google search for 'crimps'. I've used a lot of crimps before and was wondering what ones are used for household mains. If you don't want to help then why even say anything? :rolleyes2:

Its not something I was planning on doing, I was just wondering about it.
Thats the problem on this site (and why I don't come on here much anymore) you get shot down as soon as you ask something.

Theres some people who do genuinely help though, thanks Engineer54.
 

D Skelton

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I wouldn't know mate, I never do that. Imho it's dog rough
You wouldn't have liked the emergency CU change I had to do a few months back then :D

Everything from main earth, bonding, tails and all final circuits crimped, heat shrinked and then SA'd
 
V

vaughant

Why wouldn't you solder and heatshrink though?surely that's the best way in domestic stuff as generally your using single core cable which I've found generally don't crimp as well as multistrand stuff,where near enough everything is crimped on in industrial applications.
 

D Skelton

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I find single core crimps better than multistrand. And solder could potentially just melt in fault conditions.
 

D Skelton

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If the solder gets anywhere near melting point you've got way more problems elsewhere before that!
Very true :D, my point is though that it's pretty easy to melt solder. You can melt the stuff with a hair dryer! But it's pretty damn hard to shift a well crimped butt connector. If crimped correctly, a single butt connector should take the weight of a heavy guy swinging on the cable long before it gives way!
 

D Skelton

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Wasn't castigating anyone for doing it mate, just voicing my opinion
I know you weren't mate, I was only messin' :D

You're more than entitled to your opinion, although different to mine, I can't find any reason to say your opinion is wrong :)
 
Personally, I hate crimping solid-core, let alone doing it and then burying it beneath plaster!
Just my opinion, you understand... :)
 
V

vaughant

I find single core crimps better than multistrand. And solder could potentially just melt in fault conditions.
This is a joke of course?
No-one would ever choose a crimped joint over soldering on cables of that size who has the slightest knowledge of fault finding.
9/10 the faults are at poor connections and that's just what crimps are, additional connections,more to go wrong.unless you have a really exceptional crimper that I've never heard of or seen in action I'm nearly 100% certain that most electricians would agree that a soldered joint is the best,obviously not the most convenient hence why it's not regularly used in the uk.
Btw if you can melt solder connections which I believe melts at 350 degrees from memory then the rest of your cables probably on fire with anything plastic at that point anyway!!!!!
 
V

vaughant

I'd also get that hair dryer checked out too seeings as you use a heat gun to melt heat shrink onto it at about 3000watts of power and you can't melt solder with one of those.
As above though,a poorly soldered joint is just as bad as a bad crimp but done correctly I've never seen one fail directly,always through impact damage/excess heat nearby as in fire etc.
 

D Skelton

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This is a joke of course?
No, this isn't a joke and I'm entitled to my opinion mr patronising!

I know for a fact that every crimp I use is a sound connection because I give it a damn hard tug once fitted! Not one has come loose yet and never have they showed up poor test results. I agree that when fault finding badly fitted crimps can often be a cause of high results but that's just it, the critical word in that sentence being 'badly'. If they were really that poor then they wouldn't be classed as a maintenence free connection would they???

I'm nearly 100% certain that most electricians would agree that a soldered joint is the best
On single strand cable??? Why don't you put it to the test then??? Solder a length of T+E together and crimp a length of T+E together, then see which join is the strongest when you try and pull them apart. I can tell you now that you wouldn't be able to pull apart a properly crimped join but ripping the soldered join in two would be as easy as pulling apart a slice of bread!

Btw if you can melt solder connections which I believe melts at 350 degrees from memory then the rest of your cables probably on fire with anything plastic at that point anyway!!!!!
Solder melts at much less than 350 degrees, I know because I've used a hair dryer to melt (or at least soften) it before! If you've ever heard of the 'Hairdryer on motherboard' trick for fixing ring of death X-Box 360's then you'll know what I mean. If not, look it up on google and you'll see it in action. Ok fair enough it's only a miniscule amount of solder, but it's solder none the less! Also, if solder was the be all and end all, why do the regs not allow tinning of fine stranded multicore cable to make good terminations? Why? Because soldering can reduce the mechanical stability of a multi-stranded cable termination by wicking up the conductor thus making it lose its flexibility, this may also increase volt-drop and cause other problems. Also, with solder, migration of the elements in the solder over time because of pressure at the termination may cause problems as well. Funny that! considering that the only way the regs permit termination of fine stranded multicore cable is by using a suitable crimping device to attach a ferrule on the end first.

We all have our opinions, and I'm not going to tell anyone who prefers to use Wago's over crimps that they're wrong, neither am I gonna argue with anyone who thinks using crimps is a rough job, however anyone that says properly fitted crimps are unsafe is (IMHO) wrong!
 
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SJD

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Typical lead-free solder used in electronics melts at around 220 degrees C (older lead-based solder was typically a bit lower, under 200 degrees C). You can get high melting point solder, there are various types that can be as high as 350 degrees (or even higher) - but you have to specifically buy a high melting point type.
 

D Skelton

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Typical lead-free solder used in electronics melts at around 220 degrees C (older lead-based solder was typically a bit lower, under 200 degrees C). You can get high melting point solder, there are various types that can be as high as 350 degrees (or even higher) - but you have to specifically buy a high melting point type.
Thanks for clarifing that buddy :)
 

PEG

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Crimping electrical connections is an established termination method.That said,obviously the type of crimp has to comply with the materials used and the expected operating conditions.Your van,your hospital equipment and the space shuttle uses crimp connectors,so lets not curse them as the devils creation! :wink5: The real issue is whether they can be suitable for solid conductors.Because they are applied using mechanical forming,they rely on the continued resistance of that initial forming to maintain mechanical therefore electrical contact.This resistance or "springyness" (not a tech term!) is more easily acheived with multi-stranded conductors and is the operating principle of Wago type jb's. Think of a non stretchy belt on a fat bloke,jump up and down for a day,loose a bit weight,get hot and sweaty,the pants may come down.Put a bungy round them pants and hey presto! Crimps can function on solid conductors if they have enough body to resist the changing shape from the crimped form and there is containment of the conductor within the crimp ie; staggered forming along the conductor.In short good quality crimps,proper mechanical or hydraulic crimping device and good operation.If that can't be guaranteed,then other methods are best employed. .....OR how about those twisty yokes we used to use years ago? they were great......:joker:
 

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