Discuss Understandable attitude? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Percyprod

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I was talking to a guy recently who had had a terraced house left to him by a relative ( lucky bloke!) He had renovated most of it himself, and was one of the 'it's my house, I'll do what I want with it' brigade. He said he had to get a proffesional plasterer in, as it was one thing he couldn't do, but had done plumbing and electrics himself. He said that he had got estimates for rewiring, but simply couldn't afford it. So he bought a copy of the 17th edition, and did it himself. The old wiring was lead sheathed, and from what he said he'd done a good job. My point is, as he said, the wiring is far safer than it was, which can't be argued with. Is it a fair, if not legal attitude? Bear in mind that from what he said the wiring is physically correct, just the paperwork isn't!
 

Murdoch

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My point is, as he said, the wiring is far safer than it was, which can't be argued with. Is it a fair, if not legal attitude? Bear in mind that from what he said the wiring is physically correct, just the paperwork isn't!
Unless this "mate" bought himself a MFT and knows how to use it, who is to say its "physically correct"?
 

Andy78

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He says it is correct, but the ignorance of an incompetent is what makes them incompetent.
Only verification and testing can prove safety.
It very much can be argued against that the wiring is safer than it was, as there is no proof of safety, only the word of a diyer. I would much rather use a competently and professionally installed system of any age than a recent diy job.
 

littlespark

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So if the guy now gets a pro in to do an EICR, and it passes?
Doesn't sound like the kind of person to BUY a 17th ed book. Maybe was just the OSG? or maybe just said that he did?
 

ipf

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What gets me is the fact that he gets a property for SFA and then can't be bothered to do things properly, by the book.
Was he in debt up to his brain box? Dipstick!
Hope he fries...or his house, at least.
 
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Andy78

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I got this from one of my dad's neighbours. He asked me for a quote to do some outside sockets and pond supplies. Couple of hundred quid. Ummed and ahhed, nah I'll do it myself. The current setup was a right lash up of twisted and taped joints across his workbench.

His son did the same as in the OP. Bragging to me one day about how easy it is and how he bought the regs and rewired his own house. "You don't need to do all that testing, it's just to make sparkies look clever all that rubbish. My mate told me and he helped me do it"
I bit my tongue til it was nearly off.

Now both father and son are not stupid people and not poor people, in fact both very well off. Just stubborn, tight arsed, know it alls. The type that will spend all weekend servicing their car and brag all year about how, after parts, it cost £40 less than a service at the garage.
You're never going to change this breed of person, just as in the OP.

Someone who has DIY rewired their entire house will not entertain any notion of things being incorrect in any way as they don't want to know. The facts remain however, in this case, that competence cannot be proved and neither can the safety of the installation nor compliance with any standards. To say that this must be safer that it was is an absolute nonsense in the absence of these proofs.
 
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Percyprod

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Lovely attitudes. Hope he fries? For f*** sake and you're criticising him? He ordered and bought the regs from Waterstones, up until then he lived in a grotty rented flat and had been burgled twice. He works hard, but is on fairly low wages. He simply can't afford to pay in thousands what he did himself in hundreds. When I say physically correct I mean the right cables, fittings protection etc. A system wired god knows when in lead sheathed cable is safer than a modern system? Are you having a laugh? In actual fact he is paying for it to be tested, that's all he can afford. Most of the little savings he had went on the boiler / fire installation. There really are some nice people on here, aren't there?
 
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Percyprod

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I cannot understand this attitude that a diyer can't do a safe or good job. I suppose that as qualified electricians charging what you do you can always afford a professional to do any work needed on your house, car etc.
 

MDJ

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I cannot understand this attitude that a diyer can't do a safe or good job. I suppose that as qualified electricians charging what you do you can always afford a professional to do any work needed on your house, car etc.
Will his house be insured though if it catches fire? and unless he has tested the installation and certified it it may not be right and may not be acceptable to his insurance company. Does he know someone who will say they did the work and issue the correct paperwork? if so no probs.
 
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Murdoch

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I cannot understand this attitude that a diyer can't do a safe or good job.
Unless they have training, experience, test kit etc, how can you say that he can do a "safe" job?
 

Leesparkykent

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I cannot understand this attitude that a diyer can't do a safe or good job. I suppose that as qualified electricians charging what you do you can always afford a professional to do any work needed on your house, car etc.
@Percyprod...I think you need to chill out abit. The thread title is a question isit not? What do you expect everyone to say? It certainly isn't going to be "what a hero for buying the regs and rewiring his house with no input from a competent electrician"! If he wanted to do this then I feel he should of gone down the proper channels and raised a building control notice and had the 1st fix checked at various stages etc by a council appointed contractor.

Imo your "friend" has done it in an arse about face way...If he had done it the proper way then maybe members would be of a different opinion.

Don't start a thread asking opinions then get all mardy when you don't like the replies because they aren't the same as yours.
 

Murdoch

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I suppose that as qualified electricians charging what you do you can always afford a professional to do any work needed on your house, car etc.
So how much do you think the average spark earns per hour, and I mean earn? Not what they charge, what they actually earn, after the overheads are deducted and don't forget all the out of hours work we HAVE to do.

And also, most of us are self employed, so this mean NO PENSION contribution from an employer.......
 

MDJ

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If the guy was prepared to lift the boards drill all the joists, plaster over and do the chasing I doubt it would have cost much to rewire a terraced house anyway to be honest. Perobably 2 days hard graft for a good sparky and mate if all prepared for them.
 

Murdoch

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MDJ

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If the guy was prepared to lift the boards drill all the joists, plaster over and do the chasing I doubt it would have cost much to rewire a terraced house anyway to be honest. Perobably 2 days hard graft for a good sparky and mate if all prepared for them.
I have a feeling of de ja vus about this................ maybe others following this thread should cast their eyes down this thread:

Best type of lighting in stables - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/best-type-of-lighting-in-stables.123300/

Me thinks the OP is referring to himself but calling him a "friend"
I thought that myself but gave him the benefit of the doubt lol, He is obviously an enthusiast who likes to keep his hand in if it is the OP.
 

andyb

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I doubt he bought the reg's, what good would they be to him?
If he had no electrical experiance he would not be able to make head nor tail of the reg's.
How can a copy of the reg's help you rewire a house?
 

Murdoch

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I thought that myself but gave him the benefit of the doubt lol, He is obviously an enthusiast who likes to keep his hand in if it is the OP.
If I remember rightly the OP used to work for one of the DNO's - so he's probably got his feet up, drinking a beer, all funded by the poor unsuspecting consumer...
 
T

The Ghost

To be honest I have always maintained that a domestic house rewire is not really rocket science. The circuits involved are usually very simple and "deemed to satisfy" assuming a fairly basic install. I can see no reason an intelligent person with a bit of diligent research cannot do this. I think the caution would be the insurance and safety (in terms of testing) If he had gone the proper route (Building control) he could have paid a few hundred and attended to that aspect as well. I mean what price safety???
As it is he has broken Building Control requirements law by not notifying and probably made difficult a sale of the house in the future as well as compromising his house insurance, all of which could have been sorted by going the proper routes. To answer the attitude thing, very cavalier!
 
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andyb

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To be honest I have always maintained that a domestic house rewire is not really rocket science. The circuits involved are usually very simple and "deemed to satisfy" assuming a fairly basic install. I can see no reason an intelligent person with a bit of diligent research cannot do this. I think the caution would be the insurance and safety (in terms of testing) If he had gone the proper route (Building control) he could have paid a few hundred and attended to that aspect as well. I mean what price safety???
As it is he has broken Building Control requirements law by not notifying and probably made difficult a sale of the house in the future as well as compromising his house insurance, all of which could have been sorted by going the proper routes.
It's not rocket science no, but it's not simple either.
Your view is shapped by the fact that you do this sort of work day in day out and for the most part do not have to think about it too much.
The work is indeed fairly straight forwrd, it's the theory behind it that you would struggle with, without experiance and knowledge.
 
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MDJ

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I don't think you could call a heating system easy if not electrically knowlegable, an S plan or even a basic Y plan would confuse some people lol, I doubt the OP even knows what they are, also connecting up the DB to the meter as well, how did he do that?
 
T

The Ghost

fairly straight forwrd, it's the theory
I do agree, I was at a commercial kitchen the other day and a bright young man working there (not an electrician) had worked out all of the loads and what he could and could not put in to the kitchen. I asked him how the diversity affected his calculations, and did he apply C factors to the wiring methods, and so on. I suggested he should speak to an Electrician and get some advice....Ohhh hang on...
 
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The Ghost

heating system easy if not electrically knowlegable, an S plan or even a basic Y plan would confuse some people lol, I doubt the OP even knows what they are, also connecting up the DB to the meter as well, how did he do that
Apparently he paid for someone to do that according to the OP.
 
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Percyprod

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Ok let's just agree that anything not done by a fully qualified and trained person is unsafe, so no carpentry, roofing, car repairs etc etc should be done by any one else. I have seen jobs done by so called qualified sparks with all the fancy stickers on their self maintained vans, which of course shouldn't be on the road because they are unsafe, with all the letters after their name that could have been done better than a blind martian. Like it or not, wiring can be done safely by any intelligent person. I was taught the amateur radio course by an unlicensed person. He'd forgotten more than I will ever know. I know safety isn't the same issue here, but the principle is the same.
 
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Percyprod

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Sorry I got a bit irate, but when some one says he hopes a person fries because he rewired his own house to save money, then I do find it hard to keep calm.
 

Andy78

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Ok let's just agree that anything not done by a fully qualified and trained person is unsafe, so no carpentry, roofing, car repairs etc etc should be done by any one else. I have seen jobs done by so called qualified sparks with all the fancy stickers on their self maintained vans, which of course shouldn't be on the road because they are unsafe, with all the letters after their name that could have been done better than a blind martian. Like it or not, wiring can be done safely by any intelligent person. I was taught the amateur radio course by an unlicensed person. He'd forgotten more than I will ever know. I know safety isn't the same issue here, but the principle is the same.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but you are repeating yourself.
You have not addressed any of the issues brought up in this thread such as proof of competence, testing to prove safety, compliance with the wiring regulations, compliance with the law, insurance validity etc.
Any intelligent person would address these issues and take them into account.
 
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SWD

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You get knobs in all walks of life, great he inherited a house in Cumbria, if his relatives had been hard working then he would have inherited something in London and been a real smug git, but he isn't and won't be.

Everyone is a smart arse until it goes wrong, I do my own boiler repairs as well as certain jobs on the car and anything else as next week I need to replace a fence......... and service the neighbours wives, no complaints so far.......
 
A

Adam W

It might be safe, it might not be. Who knows? As Andy says above the regs is no 'how-to guide' it's written in quasi-legal speak and wouldn't make sense to anyone who didn't already have some idea of what they were doing.
Pulling in cables isn't rocket science, if you know what you're doing, but then anything is easy if you know what you're doing. The question is whether or not this guy actually does, bearing in mind that everyone seems to think they can 'do electrics' but then leave a trail of cables buried outside prescribed zones and connector blocks plastered into the walls which they had no idea they weren't supposed to do.
 
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Leesparkykent

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Ok let's just agree that anything not done by a fully qualified and trained person is unsafe, so no carpentry, roofing, car repairs etc etc should be done by any one else. I have seen jobs done by so called qualified sparks with all the fancy stickers on their self maintained vans, which of course shouldn't be on the road because they are unsafe, with all the letters after their name that could have been done better than a blind martian. Like it or not, wiring can be done safely by any intelligent person. I was taught the amateur radio course by an unlicensed person. He'd forgotten more than I will ever know. I know safety isn't the same issue here, but the principle is the same.
Why didn't they go down the building control route? If they had then they could of completed the work themselves and all would of been above board....
 

123

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Ok let's just agree that anything not done by a fully qualified and trained person is unsafe, so no carpentry, roofing, car repairs etc etc should be done by any one else. I have seen jobs done by so called qualified sparks with all the fancy stickers on their self maintained vans, which of course shouldn't be on the road because they are unsafe, with all the letters after their name that could have been done better than a blind martian. Like it or not, wiring can be done safely by any intelligent person. I was taught the amateur radio course by an unlicensed person. He'd forgotten more than I will ever know. I know safety isn't the same issue here, but the principle is the same.
Was it you that wired this house?
If not, how do you know it's such a good job? Pretty much every spark on this forum that works in domestic sector will have seen some bad DIY bodges, that the home owner themselves did and think is a great job.
 
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