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TESTING is a job for those with the correct equipment and the knowledge to use it...I don't touch that either
Nice post, but I'd say at least some testing is a job within reach of anyone who has made changes to an installation. All you need is a multimeter- If you've added a spur then polarity and CPC continuity at a minimum even if you don't have the ability to check R1+R2 etc.
 
Take your point johnduffell, but yes I can check polarity and CPC continuity, but nothing more to check the full circuit. I would like to think I'd get the coloured wires the right way round on a 2m spur, especially if I can see both ends of it at the same time!
However, I once had a Wimpey house where...oh, never mind, I'm digressing again...
 
Nice post, but I'd say at least some testing is a job within reach of anyone who has made changes to an installation. All you need is a multimeter- If you've added a spur then polarity and CPC continuity at a minimum even if you don't have the ability to check R1+R2 etc.

err no ................... such changes require testing dead, live and RCD ........ rather tricky with a multimeter.
 
Nice post, but I'd say at least some testing is a job within reach of anyone who has made changes to an installation. All you need is a multimeter- If you've added a spur then polarity and CPC continuity at a minimum even if you don't have the ability to check R1+R2 etc.

err no ................... such changes require testing dead, live and RCD ........ rather tricky with a multimeter.
Well quite, and I would do that, however if you'll read the context it's a diyer adding a spur to a RFC. If you think it's reasonable for a diyer to buy an mft or get an electrician in then we would have to disagree.
Yes in an ideal world everything would be tested and correct, but in the real world I'll keep on encouraging people who would otherwise do no testing to at least do a little.
 
Ze tester was by comparison with the dno surveyor's one and the guys changing the cutout, that covered around 0.25 to 1.2 ohms range.
The low ohms tester I did with a couple of cable reels and calculated the expected, and the it by some high value resistors.
The RCD tester I'm stumped though, but I'm less concerned about that. It's the timing aspect that makes it hard. I could probably test it with an oscilloscope if I had one.

So what if the DNO's tester was incorrectly calibrated. Did you allow for temperature difference when using the cable reels. Costs about £70 to have an MFT professionally calibrated. Why cut corners, for the sake of a few pounds?
 
Well quite, and I would do that, however if you'll read the context it's a diyer adding a spur to a RFC. If you think it's reasonable for a diyer to buy an mft or get an electrician in then we would have to disagree.
Yes in an ideal world everything would be tested and correct, but in the real world I'll keep on encouraging people who would otherwise do no testing to at least do a little.

The 'easy' job of spuring off an existing rfc demonstrates the flaws in your argument re paying an electrician.

Theory wise you need similar knowledge as if you were to rewire the whole house.

So, you need to know the type of supply, the method of disconnection, the protection device and its suitabiity and max Zs for the device, You need to know the rcd type, you need to test r1+r2, insulation resistance, test Zs, rcd disconnection times and more.
You not only need to do these tests with the correct equipment you need to understand them. You need to understand if the Zs you got of say 1.6 is acceptable or the disconnection time of 45ms is accectable.

Or you could get a qualified electrician to do the work.

Are you an electrician John? if so why do you insist in running down your trade? Don't you think that you undermine your profession by the attitude 'I don't know why you're wasting your money paying me when you can quite easy do it yourself if you spent 10 minutes on the inernet' ?
 
So what if the DNO's tester was incorrectly calibrated. Did you allow for temperature difference when using the cable reels. Costs about £70 to have an MFT professionally calibrated. Why cut corners, for the sake of a few pounds?
True, there were two visits from different people and I didn't ask either for a calibration cert. The ze correlates with the R1+R2+ze I have measured on the socket circuits, so any error would be an offset rather than a percentage.
I didn't allow for temperature difference. I just used the tabulated resistances per metre but I didn't clock that they were done at a non standard temp.
Being honest you've reminded me that I should do another check as it was so long ago, but I don't have a full reel to hand. I could go and test the reels on the shelf in wickes .
None of the circuit efli were close to the limit butI guess the risk is that the ze is high enough that the disconnection times won't be met. Short of doing some short circuit testing at the end of each circuit, I could be assuming things are fine when they're not. Same goes for the rcds, they do trip quickly, but I have no guarantee they trip as quickly as they should.
I'll have a think about whether to calibrate and retest based on your concerns.
 
Steady on people, don't get carried away, read what I actually wrote. The poster said they are happy to add a spur but they dont touch testing! I just said why not add at least some testing as it's better than nothing. Then everyone went crazy based on something out of context.
I can check a circuit is dead before, say, adding a spur, or replacing a lighting circuit, and consider my work to be safe
TESTING is a job for those with the correct equipment and the knowledge to use it...I don't touch that
I'd say at least some testing is a job within reach of anyone

Yes I agree and fully understand the importance of all the required tests. But if someone's done some work anyway, I'd rather they did some testing than none at all. That's all.
 
Yes in an ideal world everything would be tested and correct, but in the real world I'll keep on encouraging people who would otherwise do no testing to at least do a little.
Keep encouraging.
Although, I do reckon those who know how to carry out correct test procedures would insist on having the appropriate test equipment to do so.
 
Does everyone else enjoy reading these sunday afternoon discussions?

I'll throw in another comment. I like to see thumbs up at the bottom of my posts.

It is true to say that there can be DIY enthusiasts that can do a good job in any trade, as there can be professionals that can do a bad job.
There are procedures in place for professionals to root out the bad. Trade bodies, building control etc. We test our installations and put our name to it, so there is a comeback if something goes wrong.
In any trade, any form of work, accidents can and do happen. The highest likelihood of something going wrong is someone attempting something they have not a clue about. That is simple logic.
A professional does know what they are doing. They have had suitable training, and added experience. The fact that we regularly visit other peoples homes and see first hand what DIY Dave has attempted to do last bank holiday, we can see a danger almost immediately whereas the DIYer may not.
As I said on a previous post on this thread, some of the members here are quick to criticise, and may seem rude about it. It is down to sheer frustration sometimes.

Now if you don't mind, I'm away to google how to remove a tooth, because I cant afford to go to a professional dentist
 
To be honest although the op is not quite there yet, I rewired oro place myself and I can see where he's coming from although he has a few unanswered questions and is being defensive rather than open.
Although I'm not qualified at all, I spent some time researching, bought a book on domestic wiring, another on I&t. Then I asked questions until to make sure I didn't get flamed for not knowing anything!
Then I get the dno to replace their iron age cutout and the supplier to add an isolator switch then I set to work.
The main areas of uncertainty were that I bought out of calibration test equipment and I had to make my own tests up to check them. Which was not possible for the rcd tester.
Also I didn't have the experience to know the best way to split into circuits etc. I think I ended up with a few too many.
Is it safer? No one can say for sure, but the previous I dated to the late 70s (t&e but no green goo, wood framed wylex board in brown, earthed lighting circuits) plus plenty of DIY bodges and high loop ratings on both rings. Low it on the ground floor ring due to damp jbs under the floor. Random exposed chock blocks removed. No water bond.
Now it all tests out correctly, everything is still in safe zones, RCD protection. I'm happy that it's safer.
Also bearing in mind not all professionals in any field get it right all the time. I've counteracted my extra chance of making a mistake by thinking harder about it. Would a pro have done a better job? Good question. If it was someone on this forum, yes, because you lot are here to further your experience and care about the trade. But I've seen electricians who just want the money (you call them Electrical Trainee right?)

I do pay a highly recommended relative of a friend of a colleague to service the car. Last time he left the maf unplugged and the air filter box disconnected from the manifold, and told me the check engine light was on because the MAf was getting to the end of its life and would probably need replaced soon. He had replaced a bulb in that area. When I got home I realised it was all half disconnected and put it back, then when I asked him he swore blind sometimes there's a back pressure in old cars and it causes such an explosion that it pops it all apart. So yes it's sometimes worth spending the weekend doing a service yourself to save 40 quid.

Not trying to wind anyone else up, just two sides of the coin.
Ah another Lamb to the slaughter
 
Still stand by my original post, (seems so long ago). I haven't seen either the old wiring it the new, but I still say an installation of lead covered wiring, of unknown age or quality of installation, which had bare conductors where the Vir insulation had flaked off is far worse than one using modern cables, fittings and protection. It would I'm sure isolate a fault more quickly, even if not as well as it should. I don't know who's doing the testing, it what will be tested, but as some one else has said, it's better than none. Of course it should be done to the book, I'm all for that.
 
Replacing what may be dangerous with something that may be slightly less dangerous and then proclaiming it to be an improvement isn't a good thing to aim for.
 
You are wrong. Rep what IS dangerous by something far less dangerous has to be a good thing. Maybe not perfect, but definitely better
 
Still stand by my original post, (seems so long ago). I haven't seen either the old wiring it the new, but I still say an installation of lead covered wiring, of unknown age or quality of installation, which had bare conductors where the Vir insulation had flaked off is far worse than one using modern cables, fittings and protection. It would I'm sure isolate a fault more quickly, even if not as well as it should. I don't know who's doing the testing, it what will be tested, but as some one else has said, it's better than none. Of course it should be done to the book, I'm all for that.

I dunno, I've seen some old original installations (well not lead covered tw&e), not hacked about by DIY'ers in pretty good mint condition.
 
I dunno, I've seen some old original installations (well not lead covered tw&e), not hacked about by DIY'ers in pretty good mint condition.
If it’s original, surely that means no one has altered it at all?
So not hacked about by DIY’ers or professionals?
 
Understandable attitude? {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net
 
But this one wasn't in mint condition, it had bare conductors, fittings hanging off etc. This is what I was told. Now I suppose some one will say he was lying!
 

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