Vphase units

[thebassman]

Hi All


Any of you fitted one of the Vphase units and were there any issues with it , we have a customer who wants one fitted and he is supplying it, i have downloaded the installation manual and as far as i can see you need to do some mods to CU to separate circuits. I have arranged to visit him next week to see if there is room to fit it and if the CUs can be altered as far as i remember they are older Hager Mcb board fitted around 9 years ago.

Any advice would be helpfull and any problems that you may have encountered

DAnny

 

[Engineer54]

I think you'll find that no-one here has much time for these basically useless, expensive over rated gizmo's. Far better to spend the cost of these units and buy Led lamps for every light fitting in the house. You'll get a better and faster return on the investment too.... lol!!!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Engineer54 is right, do a search on here and you will find this has been covered and the conclusion is they are rubbish.

 

[thebassman]

HI

Thanks for reply yes i tend to agree just spent the last hour on there web site down loading and reading there pdfs and what i can see is they have limited current 16amp then they go into bypass, the house we have asked to install it is really big i recently did a PIR for his insurance and i just checked there is 3 CUs 2 x 15 ways at point of supply and 1 x 8 way in upper floor, there is only one spare way. Dont think he is going to save anything the cost plus our fitting and i am sure the CUs will need changed the pay back time would be very long and the units have a 5 year life so where is the saving if you need to replace it every 5 years, anyway if reducing the voltage to 220v saves money i am sure the supply companies would do this themselves. I think i will be advising against it as i dont see any point in them thanks for your reply.

I have fitted a fluorosave unit to 250w son lighting in a factory whaich after warn up period the unit changed to energy saving and if any further load was switched on it switched out of energy saving for again 8 mins, i remember taking current readings at the two stages and they was a drop of 1kw on a 4kw load this factory has reduced there bills but they also installed a 12kw 3 phase wind turbine last time i spoke to them there bills had reduced by 38%, i suppose there are ways of saving but the vphase in my opinion is not one.

Danny

 

[thebassman]

Thanks to all replies they are useless

Danny

 

[davelerave]

they're bypassed over 16amps

wonder how far down the small print that is?

 

[Spudnik]

Actually, it is in the spec sheet Dave

 

[P Clarke]

The only problem I have found with me Vphase unit is someswitched mode power supplied device can produce high pitched noise. As do they work the answer is yes. Mine has stepped down the voltage from 254Vto 221V. Average household savings areover 10% with many of my appliance i have tested have reduced power consumptionby up to 24% for things like laptops andTV’s. Payback works out at 2.5 years formy house

 

[spark 68]

The only problem I have found with me Vphase unit is someswitched mode power supplied device can produce high pitched noise.

The reason for this is because SMPS have feedback from the secondary (output) side to maintain some form of regulation for the O/P voltage, it does this by varying the Mark/Space ratio, the time the switching transistor is on to the transistors off time, if the supply voltage is lower, the switching transistor is switched on longer to maintain the same output, and so draws more current than usual.
No savings here Iam afraid, it just pulls more current, you cannot break Ohms law.

 

[netblindpaul]

Ask Scotty,
It goes something along the lines of "yea cannae defy the laws of physics Captain"!

 

[Engineer54]

The only problem I have found with me Vphase unit is someswitched mode power supplied device can produce high pitched noise. As do they work the answer is yes. Mine has stepped down the voltage from 254Vto 221V. Average household savings areover 10% with many of my appliance i have tested have reduced power consumptionby up to 24% for things like laptops andTV’s. Payback works out at 2.5 years formy house

Payback in just 2.5 years, .....Only in your dreams mate!! I did have to laugh at the laptop you quoted, ...that'll really save you some money over the course of a year!!

 

[spark 68]

@E54,

The thing is E54 you don't save anything at all with electronics that have SM regulators in (post #9), ie. laptops, TV's or anything else similar for that matter, I would be doubtful if certain LED lights (the ones with electronic drivers) would save anything in this context (except the savings you would normally get anyway).

I still don't see where you make any savings at all with this unit.

 

[spark 68]

Actually you may save a little on normal incandescent lamps, but that is about it, because even CCFL energy saving lamps, if they work at all at the lower voltage, have the electronics built into these as well.

 

[Engineer54]

@E54,

The thing is E54 you don't save anything at all with electronics that have SM regulators in (post #9), ie. laptops, TV's or anything else similar for that matter, I would be doubtful if certain LED lights (the ones with electronic drivers) would save anything in this context (except the savings you would normally get anyway).

I still don't see where you make any savings at all with this unit.

Agreed, on the electronic SM regulators etc... The are two basic problems with these Vphase units to my mind, one is any straight resistive heating elements will take exactly the same amount of power, but with prolonged time periods, not good when your gasping for a cup of tea, or in my case coffee!! ...lol!!!

The other thing, and probably more important, is that these units are just not of a suitable rating to make much of a difference in cutting energy costs. All the larger appliances where you would like to see a reduction in running costs, will be excluded from this unit...

Even having tungsten or halogen lighting circuits running through these gizmo's ain't that much of a good idea, as reducing voltage to these lamps, will reduce the light output. Now that sounds daft to me!!!

I have yet to see a good review given to these Vphase units by a recognised consumer body, or anyone else come to that. All you tend to get at most, is bland obscure statements of equally non descriptive assumed savings. And that i think is another basic problem, virtually all claimed savings by this company, are totally based on too many assumptions.

 

[Guest112]

shall we all pitch in to make a energy saving device that does work? could be rich and we could retire. we should go back to using candles or just sit in the dark without the tv on

 

[spark 68]

The other thing nobody has mentioned yet, is what is the efficiency of this unit ?, as we know nothing is a 100% efficient, it must have some dissipation, by way of heat, so any savings you do make, and I use that term loosely, may be lost by the unit itself.

I asked these questions at the Elex trade show last year, and the Rep could not answer me then, and just went into "repeat mode" quoting obscure facts and figures.

 

[spark 68]

shall we all pitch in to make a energy saving device that does work?

Yeah Pete, Psst want to buy a perpetual motion machine ?
Only Joking, LoL:96:

 

[P Clarke]

Test it yourself. Use a Variac variable transformers and mains power and energy monitor. Step the voltage down by 20-30 V and see power usages drop, try different appliances. The current seems to remain the constant and the voltage drops. I agree saving can’t be made on resistive heating loads as they just take longer to heat up and energy = power * time. I would be interested in anyone’s measured data that proves my finding wrong. I would also be interested if anyone could explain the hard science and reasoning behind the sceptics instead of just been sceptical. Tesco have installed them at some of there stores and also have events to show they work.

 

[spark 68]

Re: SMPS

Test it yourself. Use a Variac variable transformers and mains power and energy monitor. Step the voltage down by 20-30 V and see power usages drop

I have tested in this way before, I was into Electronics long before entering the Electrical side, I have in a past life repaired SMPS (to component level) using a variac with an ammeter built in, and can assure you that as the volts going in drop the, current consumption increases (see post #9), P= I*V, no getting away from this fact

 

[P Clarke]

Yes your correct P=I*V and V=I*R. For example a lamp if its supply voltage is reduced it gets dimmer and uses less power. There is no black magic going on. For most if not all appliances work on a lower voltage, yes they will be dimmer or less powerful. For most appliances this drop in power or brightness is not noticeable. Yes a kettle become less powerful and therefore takes longer to boil so no saving is made there. But for everything else that does not have resistive heating loads in them just work less powerfully or brightly but still work perfectly acceptably. For my house most of my base load is not heating based therefore I find I save just over ten 10% on my electric bill. To a well trained eye my house may be appear to be 10% less bright than next door but I can’t tell. But the saving can be seen in my before and after daily meter reading. The only odd thing about it is the biggest saving I have measured is for my laptop switched mode powers supply which I through would of automatic compensate and increased the current it draws, but instead it runs much cooler. Voltage optimisation contains no black magic it just makes everything run less powerfully and dimmer and produces less waste heat. Therefore I may have to turn up my gas heating to keep my house the same temperature as before but gas costs 3 times less than electric per unit.